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02 November 2009

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Psssstt Lynda, did you mean to leave comments open? If you did I'm really glad {{{{{hug}}}} I <3 what you say here and the pictures take my breath away. Happy almost birthday too! :D

I'n sorry you get stuck dealing with crazy mean people. It shouldnt be how it is but it always is that way no matter what, isn't it? It doesn't look like it's ever going to change. It's a good thing the good parts don't change too. :)

Hi Lynda -
I've mentioned this book before, but thought others who are scratching their heads and thinking WTF? about the OKP might find this interesting reading --
"Will the Vampire People Please Leave the Lobby? (True Adventures in Cult Fandom)" by Allyson Beatrice is about discussion boards that were for Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans, but there are many familiar scenarios described -- both the good and the crazy.

You had commments open yesterday and still today so it's a go now? If it isn't just ocnsider this another email. My last email to you bounced back cause your box was full. :)

I fall into the group of fans who don't participate on the GBs site any more. I read the guy's blogs regularly and I'll go to the OKP to read about a show I went to or about Robin Hood or other side stuff (but I get that news better here anyway) and the fan who posts the newspaper articles too. That's it, I haven't posted there in years. It's like going back to where you used to live and you remember how it was when you and all the people you knew were there but it's not a place you want to live in now. It bugged me for a long time but now it's nothing that bothers me because what I miss is gone for good and the people who use it now are happy with it. The blogs are great and the best seats tickets are pretty cool too so the trade off isn't bad. Though the merch is pretty sorry.

The distrubed fans didn't go away when the OKP became unfriendly to them they went other places, and your latest troll is one of em. I think you should ignore her and eventually she'll get bored or run out of venom for now or work out whatever shit's going on in RL so she doesn't need to take it out on you online or being pissed at Alan. I did know a GBS fan who used to rag on you because she had a steaming grudge against Alan and she got pissed at you for always liking him but she's long gone now and good for that. Sheesh what a bitch! I don't know how you keep on with it and don't get sick of it. I'd have gotten sick of it a long time ago. Nobody should have to deal with this crap especially when all they've done is like somebody. It's not right.

This is MYOB territory but I don't think I'd cut a friend as much slack as you. If she wants to hang with friend A who acts like a bitch to friend B and that makes A think she agrees about hating B, that's not right too. She's got a lot to learn about being a friend. I wouldn't put up with it no matter how close a friend she was because she's not being a close friend in return. I'm just sayin.

I love your pictures. I know it's work and hassle and you get shit for doing it and if you want to stop I understand all the way. But you get pictures nobody else gets with expressions that I don't see anywhere else not even when I'm at the same show. I'm not pressuring you to keep on doing it that's your decision., all I want is let you know how much I like it.

Cheers,

Kath

Hug

Michael

I didn't realise I hadn't closed comments on this one - the only way I know how to do it is to manually close comments each time I post a new entry, and I forgot to do that last time. Maybe I'll just leave it this way and see how it goes.

Hug right back at you, Mike. Thanks to you and to a couple of other folks for the heads-up in email about the comments status. Thanks for the great Chris Trapper video birthday tune too.

Kath, I'm sorry your email bounced. My email does regularly get full when I let it go and don't clean it out every day or two. Another reason to leave this option open for messages, I suppose.

I agree that the personal blogs are the best part of the GBS site as it is today. They've done a really good job with the Best Seats ticket presales too. Yes, there's not much merch to be gotten on the official site, but I think that's a really smart move by GBS: If you want the cool merch, come to the shows to buy it. Canny fellows, always.

I think there's quite a bit to be found on the OKP that's genuinely good. I've sure benefitted from all kinds of helpful travel suggestions made by people who live in the cities I'm going to - transit options, hotel discounts, great local restaurants. I've also really appreciated the fan ("General Taylor") who posts so many GBS interviews and articles. All such generous sharings are appreciated.

I've always been impressed by the dialogue that takes place in the thread about disabled children too. And there's also such perennial smile-inducers as the seasonal gift-exchange threads, along with the periodic "Hello - GBS is great!!!" innocent exuberance of various brandly new fans.

No matter how much there might also be that's not so great, in most places there's almost always decent, nice people doing and saying all the good things that decent, nice people do and say. It's there too, in ample supply. I'm glad they've decided to keep the OKP going, even more glad that there are people who find it to be a welcoming and satisfying place to spend time in. Come to think of it, I do feel pretty much the same way when I go back to neighbourhoods I used to live in. That was a very good analogy, Kath.

I think my view of the whole "disturbed fan/troll" issue might be a little different from how some others view it because of one simple fact: I've met/known so many of the people who do this kind of thing (sometimes finding out after knowing a person in the flesh that they've been pulling this shit, and sometimes meeting them face-to-face after the trolling has been done) that I can't think of any of them only as faceless, unreal cybercrazies.

The people I've met who have done this kind of shit have all been real - fucked up and miserable and sometimes scary, but still real. They have husbands, parents, siblings, dogs, jobs, churches, hopes, regrets...they're real. It's hard to just dismiss anyone out of hand like they don't really exist, our count, or matter. It's hard not to feel pity. None of which means I want to be within 100 feet of them.

I think I know who you're referring to. If it's the same person, she did a fair share of that ragging face to face too. She was the one who accused me of "sexuallizing" Alan. To which I replied, "Sorry, dear...God is the one who did that." I don't think she ever forgave him for being anatomically correct.

At what point did I give the impression that I hadn't ever gotten sick of this? Beyond sick of it by now. "Sick of it" implies a belief that there is (or at least that there should be) an end to whatever "it" is. "Beyond sick of it" is more about coming to a realisation that "it" will always be there and if you intend to be there too, then you have to find a way to live with it. In the grand scheme of what people should not have to deal with - even more so in the grand scheme of all that is not right - this shit ranks pretty low on the "It Shouldn't Be That Way" meter.

No, I brought up the personal stuff, so I've got no reason (and no desire) to go saying it's not someone's business if they respond to what I brought up. You bring up good points, but I've got a question to ask back: What kind of a friend is a person being when they're telling another person what a shitty job that person is doing as a friend? I think I'd rather expend my energy in being that friend to the other person, rather than in being all wrapped up in what the other person is or is not being to me.

Thank you for what you said about the photography, Kath - it means a lot.

Barb, you and a few others have recommended that book. I am going to have to get ahold of it and read it one of these days.

Ellen, I am glad you enjoyed those photos, and thanks for the hugs. Thanks too for the almost-birthday wishes. I'm really looking forward to tomorrow because I'm getting to go to my favourite Chinese restaurant (China House) for a birthday supper. Actually, looking forward to the pre-birthday supper tonight at Sun Sushi too.

You said that beautifully about how great it is that the good parts don't change too. That is exactly the best way to look at it. When all that you love is there just as it's been there from the start, that's what really matters.

It's getting close to sushi time (even better, to tempura time) so I'm off for now. I'll leave comments open for now and see how it goes.

Quick last note to Sara, about your email: Absolutely not your fault. Don't even consider the possibility. And you can use my photos anywhere and anytime you choose.

Lynda,

Thanks.

Enjoy your birthday dinner(s).

My comment doesn't entirely relate to this post but it's something I've thought about for a long time. Although I didn't do more than read the message board in the OKP, I gave up on it many years ago, primarily due to how horrible too many people were to you. A few others but you in particular. I don't know you, we've never met, I know we've been at some of the same concerts but the blatant cruelty to someone who, in my opinion, didn't deserve one iota of it was disgusting and not something I had any interest in being part of. You'd laugh if you knew how righteously indignant I can get on behalf of others! LOL The only reason I go to the site now is to see if Alan, Bob or Séan have posted anything and to check the tour schedule but that's it. I've said it before, I'll say it again: thank you for all you're willing to share with us. How you've put up with the crap as long as you have is beyond me but so long as that willingness continues, so will I read. :)

Anne, thank you. Those two words aren't really adequate, but they're all I have to offer in gratitude.

Your timing is impeccable...I just got back from a long, slightly woozy evening at the Duke (post pre-birthday supper at the sushi restaurant), during which there was an earnest conversation about trying to do the Right Thing, whatever the hell that might be. Lots of wind has been taken out of these sails recently, not so much as to alter the course, but enough to make the destination seem forever and a day away.

Then we came back and I read what you wrote, and it helped, especially when it comes to that word "judgemental" that's still echoing in my ears. That really got to me.

To be fair to GBS and gbs.com and OCC, the changes they've made on the official site are in a large part efforts to put an end to just the kind of blatant cruelty that you, and many others, found so off-putting. Even though the methods employed might at sometimes be questionable, that goal has been a good one, and a reasonably successful one on the site. The underlying moral ground is surely one for debate: Is being selectively cruel to a few justified if a larger and continuing cruelty is brought to an end? Does the end justify the means? Sometimes...most likely the answer is "yes". Whether this is one of those times - there's the question. A question I do not have an answer to.

I don't think I'd say what I am going to say next if not for the several pints at the Duke and a certain amount of saucy "It's my birthday, I can say whatever the frig I want to now,", and I very well might come back here tomorrow morning and delete, delete, delete. But for now, my answer to the reason for putting up with the crap for so long is a simple one: Because of Alan.

If it were not for him, there is no way I would ever, no way I would have ever, been either willing or able to deal with much of what I've encountered the past eight years. I'd have given up long ago. I would not have given up on Newfoundland or the genuinely wonderful people I have met during this time, but as for the rest of it, if he were not a part of the rest of it...No, Nay, Never.

There would be people I'd still care about, but it would just be too much pain for too little purpose. But he is part of the rest of it, and sharing that is part of the rest of it too. That's where the willingness comes from, where it's always going to come from.

Anne, I really like people who get righteously indignant on behalf of others. Best people in the world, as far as I'm concerned. The kind of people who make me feel grateful that they find something worth reading here. Again, thank you. I really hope I get to meet you at a show someday.

Sara, the first birthday supper was lovely - tempura and sashimi, followed by chocolate-peanut-butter jack o'lanterns and pints. Delightful. Chinese tomorrow for the actual birthday supper, followed by the same dessert at the same place as tonight.

I found where you posted that photo that "started it all". It's one of the sweetest photos of one of the most touching moments I've ever seen at a GBS show. The fact that it led indirectly to so much foolishness and bickering has absolutely nothing to do with the photo itself, nor is it any fault of yours. At the end of the day, if people want to be foolish or angry or cruel, they'll always find something to lead them in the direction they already wanted to go, no matter how innocent that something might be.

Conversely, if people want to be kind and generous and caring, they'll find their way to that place too, no matter how shitty their circumstances might be. Our choice, always.


Hi Lynda. I'm glad you keep sharing too. Have a really happy birthday and a great dinner too. :)

Jenn

It's afternoon here and later where you are and what you said is still there so I guess your leavin it. Good on ya. If it's the truth why not be up front about it? Hey, AD's the one who says todream out loud. No whisperin aloud. ;P

You already know what I think of the OKP, you see more good in it than I do. I don't buy the ends justify the means. I keep telling my kids they don't so I should live up to it myself. yahthink? Maybe real big ends do but not stupid message board ends not even rock band profits ends. Maybe its okay when everyone doesn't give a shit about each other equally and is in it only for themselves but its not how you treat someone who gives a shit. Nope not buyin it. But I never got beaten to a pulp on the OKP or lied about by scaggy kookoobirds while everyone who knew best it was all lies stood by silent with their fingers up their asses and blew off the truth. It didn't happen to me and its not my complaint and I should shaddup now right? Zee lip ees zipped....._after_ sayin my piece. Gonna edit me again? *snerks*

Happy b'day to you and tell the troll to go fuck herself cause the real problem is nobody else is doing it. :D Are you ever gonna post the photoshop pic of Alan as a vibrator? Mebbe I'll go over to the OKP and post it meself. LOLLLLL!

Have some fun today GF!

L.

Happy birthday, kiddo. As long as you keep finding your way to a place your heart's comfortable in, I'll keep saying 'Well done.' I don't always necessarily agree with what you choose but I admire how thoroughly you choose it.

I hope it's been a good day for you, with cake.

Stephen

depending the pissyness (okay it's either spelled wrong or I created a new word, deal) of some people I'd leave the most recent reply up as is, no edit. It is truth and the words come from the heart...

Again happy birthday, good journey, hugs

Michael

You came close, Mike - "pissiness". Not to be pissy about spelling.

I did leave it as I first wrote it. I kept myself away from the blog all day yesterday so I wouldn't self-edit. You're right...it is true, and it is from the heart. It stays.

Thanks to all for the birthday wishes - it really did wind up being a good birthday, a little bit surprising how good it was. The sole and single advantage of pain is how after it's gone on for awhile, it feels so wonderful when you wake up one morning to find it very nearly all gone, so the siimple absence of pain becomes in and of itself good cause for giddy celebration. Even more cause to celebrate once again being able to focus on and take pleasure in all the good things in life that the frigging pain kept getting in the way of.

More detail about that later; I'm thinking maybe I'll put it into the next entry because it goes with the rest of what I'm thinking about. For now, suffice to say it was a good birthday, same for the day after.

No cake yet, Stephen (I'll get that when I get back home, though I may be the one who bakes it) but a great meal of Chinese food, followed by Reese's peanut butter cups and pints of the best Guinness in St. John's and watching the Habs win (foolish shootout, but still a win), all done in the excellent company of a very dear friend. It was a good day.

Hey, if you're going to choose...choose with all of your heart. I don't know any other way to go about choosing. Thanks for the kind words.

Laura, you're another one of those people who get really indignant on the behalf of others. It's very good-hearted of you, a fundamental unselfishness that is sadly all too rare. And you always make me laugh with how you say whatever it is you're saying. Where the frig does the expression "fingers up their asses" come from, anyway? What an image. Not to mention the kookoobirds.

I'm not going to edit you, Laura, not this time; I decided I was going to have my full say on my birthday and the least I can do is give you the same freedom. Call it a Guy Fawkes Indulgence - verbal bonfires allowed this one day of the year.

I will say this in response, however: I think nearly all of us play the ends & means game at some times in our lives, and most of the time when we do, we genuinely believe in that notion of justification. At least I hope so. But even when we think our ends are well worth those means, chances are someone else might not agree with our priorities. And we likely might not agree with theirs.

At the end of the day, all we can do is try as best we can to be honest about and find some peace of mind with our own choices, with the means we choose to achieve the ends we desire. When it comes to the choices (both the means and the ends) of others, all we can do is face them honestly and accept them for what they are, regardless of whether or not we agree with them. And then we choose what we will do in response. "Stay and care" works well enough for me most often because it's what the heart truly wants, though there are always other choices that can be made by those who decide differently.

I sent you a copy of that vibrator photo? I'd forgotten all about that. Isn't it a great photo? I don't think I've ever put it online. I got it from one of the ladies in the Russell Crowe fan group after I'd written about the self-absorbed and essentially masturbatory nature of so much of the fan/celebrity attention/pursuit endeavour. I laughed so hard I almost hurt myself when I opened up that photo she sent to me.

What you said about "nobody else doing it" might be more pertinent that you realise. There was once an intriguing fellow I met in dark and dingy hallway of a dive hotel in Montreal's red-light district, the two of us bumping into each other at the ice machine on a stuffy, breathless night - him post-coital and me post-writing-deadline. That fellow said something to me that I've never forgotten, something that applies to what you just said about my persistent online harasser. I think I'm going to write about that next time too. It really does deserve its own entry. Thanks for the reminder, and for the good wishes too.

Same thanks to you, Jenn. Sharing is a very good thing, and so are happy birthdays too.


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Great Big Sea: The Fortunate Tour, 2008

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