"It Must Have Been Amazing" - New Great Big Sea Single 'Walk On The Moon' From Upcoming CD "Fortune's Favour" Released April 21st & Making The Dream Of Daffodil Place A Reality

First and foremost, where to go to hear the new GBS single, Walk On The Moon:

Great Big Sea MySpace Page

And for those willing to request it at their favourite local radio station, that would be an even better place to hear the new single.

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There are those times when others say it best:

Waiting for the ferry, tickets in our hand,
Good people that were never out of sight of land.
Waiting for the ferry, tickets in our hand,
Good people that you knew would never understand.

Could've brought you whisky, could've brought you wine,
The only thing I can't bring is time, time, time

And we're all on board,
It's not very far to ride.
Your river is not like Jordan
We'll meet on the other side.  - "Not Like Jordan," Ian Telfer/Alan Prosser

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From Alan Doyle's 2003 Journal Entries:

I am sitting in a Nashville hotel room waiting for a call from another songwriter to head to a publishing company, where we will sit in a cubicle and write songs from noon till five. The afternoon session. That's how they do it here in the song factory that is the Music City. In the world of songwriters, Nashville is the Mecca and while I am a little leery of the office-like hours, I am very excited to be here in the land of so many greats.   (September 8th)

That was intense. Wrote three songs in a day and a half with Gordie Sampson. If only one of them makes the cut, that would still be a huge success. What a cool experience, anyway. If nothing else, I can say in concerts, "I wrote this next song in Nashville."   (September 10th)

A great night at the Parish, and a great romp through the underworld of the city, will have to carry us through to the next concert. Thanks to the audience for letting us play so many new songs. Played "Walk on the Moon" for the first time last night, a song that I wrote with Gordie Sampson in Nashville.   (September 22nd)

And this from Alan in 2004:

This week has been a trip down memory lane. Gas station stops in Shediac and Sackville were once monthly occurrences for GBS, but in the last few years I've seen Manhattan more than Moncton. The Maritimes is a special place for us as it will always be the place that gave us our start. The toughest thing for any Newfoundland band is to get off the Rock and secure audiences on the mystical far-off Mainland.

Our first gig "up in Canada", as my grandfather called it well after confederation, was at the Lower Deck in Halifax. I remember being so nervous in the days leading up to the long journey on the Argentia to Sydney Ferry, that I threw up several times. It seemed like such a leap to take our little band to the clubs of the big cities like Halifax.   (November 27th)

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From Sean McCann's Twitter Page, April 20, 2008:

just spent the am in the woods with my 2 best friends (T & M). Sunny, crisp, clear & quiet. I remember why i Stay.

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From Bob Hallett's Journal Archives, Sept. 20, 2007:

That night I left Hotel Bizarre, and found a local beer hall down the street, on the dodgiest fringe of the Reeperbahn. I ordered a gaseous pint, and sat there by myself, trying to figure out what terrible miss-step had led me to this ridiculous point. Now it is all rather funny, but at the time I was ready to chuck the works. Out of the blue on the club stereo came this song - Bittersweet Symphony, by the Verve. It had not been released in North America yet, and it was the first time I had heard it. The hook was instantly killer, but more relevant were the lyrics, “It’s a bittersweet symphony, in my head…”. Indeed, I thought. And then the refrain “I can change, I can change, I can change…”.

My sad-eyed and silent drinking companions stared at me resentfully, flexing their swollen knuckles, my interloper status obvious to all. Too late, the Verve had already imparted their ounce of magic. For a moment at least, I did not give a *** what they thought of me, nor did I care what new nightmare the next day would bring. Germany could not defeat us that easily. I loved that song then, and I love it now.

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I'm not at all sure it's possible for me to write about Walk On The Moon, any version thereof, with much objectivity. The night I first heard Alan sing this song, it caught me completely by surprise; I was wide open and totally defenseless. That show at the Parish had already been a sweet oasis in the midst of a hard crossing, and when Alan came out at the end for his solo encore and said a few words about doing one of three songs he and Gordie had just written in Nashville a week or so ago, his words cut a swift and sure path straight through an unguarded heart.

I knew exactly where I had been on that same Nashville day when those three wonderful songs - just how wonderful all three were would not be known for several more months, when Something Beautiful was released and Lucky Me and Let It Go could also be heard - had been written: Huddled in my own Music City hotel room, feeling battered and bruised and at an utter loss to comprehend that which was going to take several more years to understand, as well as to continue paying the price for. The friend who had been with me the night before at the GBS/Cowboy Mouth Nashville show at the Exit/In - a show which had been hard times in and of itself - was supposed to drop me off at the bus terminal early that morning for the long ride to College Station, Texas, but I could not bring myself to leave that hotel room, not until I had some assurance of which bus I would choose once I got to the terminal. I hid in my hotel room all that long day, searching for the resolve to go forward. And Alan wrote three of the most honest and genuine and powerful songs he has ever written that day, all of them in their own ways about searching for - and perhaps finding - the resolve to go forward.

Not that I knew any of this about his Nashville songs as he was introducing this one; all I knew was that his introductory words had immediately brought back the painful memory of that hotel room; in the space of a few seconds, he had shaken my tentative footing on the less-than-sure ground beneath my feet. As a wound that had scarcely started to heal began to ache and throb all over again...Alan began to play his new song.

No, I do not think I can ever be objective about Walk On The Moon. I loved that song then, and I love it now.

Perhaps how I first heard Walk On The Moon, as a solo encore of Alan's, then followed by waiting for several years for it to resurface and finally hearing it - again as a solo performance - performed by Alan at several Songwriters' Circles in the early months of 2006 plays its own role in my thinking of it as a song even more intimately associated with Alan personally - a song even more true about him personally - than are some of the other songs he has written. Though I do tend to feel the same about all three songs written in his Nashville sessions with the master-collaborator, Gordie Sampson, the man with an uncanny knack for bringing out the best and strongest from whomever he works with.

Taken together, this triad of tunes has always seemed to form a remarkably clear three-dimensional perspective of Gordie's Nashville collaborator: The man who is making peace with what is past in Let It Go, the man who is accepting the bitter and the sweet of the present in Lucky Me, and finally, the man who is resolving to find the courage to reach out and fulfill the desires that lie ahead of him in Walk On The Moon. That trilogy has always been AlanStory to my ears and my heart, with Walk On The Moon being that part of the story that resides most closely in the present-becoming-future, a song that ends with Alan poised in the act of taking his own small step, hesitant uncertainty barely vanquished by tentative hope. Which is the exact position I saw the songwriter himself in during the Fall of 2003.

When GBS began performing Walk On The Moon in the Spring of 2007, their arrangement worked to create an effect very similar to Alan's solo version: the vocals were Alan-dominant, with subtle backup harmonies on the chorus; Bob's fiddle part, on rare occasion his low-whistle part, created an atmosphere of poignant longing; and Kris's swelling drums felt like the pounding of a heart caught between lingering fear and incipient resolve. When Alan sang about the ringing bells, the sound I heard in my mind was that of the church-tower bell tolling the lateness of the hour, an insistent chiming that called out for the facing down of foolish fears and cried out for the giant leap to be made. His lead vocal always had that perfect rough and raw edge of impassioned longing.

The smile on Alan's face at the end of each performance of Walk On The Moon brought back the memory of a rainy night in New Orleans, with all of the familiar ache of tentative hope and newfound resolve. Walk On The Moon was now a Great Big Sea song, but its truth and power were still to be found in AlanStory. Just as I had with the living-room version of Sea Of No Cares, I loved how in Walk On The Moon a rightful place had been made upon the Great Big Sea stage for the truths of hesitant uncertainty and tentative hope; God knows these truths occupy their own familiar places in the Great Big Sea world. 

When I first heard the single-release version of Walk On The Moon, the version that will appear on the upcoming GBS CD, Fortune's Favour (due out June 24th), it startled me. Not so much because of the sound; I've known for some time about how different the songs on this CD are going to sound, even knew to expect "tympani and bells". Actually, I think the sound of this single is amazing - "lush" comes to mind as an apt adjective. Keyboards, drums, orchestration, and of course those bells, sound absolutely gorgeous, and that is one of the strongest and most sure of all of Alan's recorded vocals I have ever heard; I can almost see his fist clenched in emphasis as his voice powers through and then resolutely holds the climactic notes. As much as it is possible for me to try to imagine what it would be like hearing Walk On The Moon for the first time in this version - as will be true for the vast majority of people who will hear it for the first time this way - I think I would have been as impressed by it as I was the first time I heard Sea Of No Cares, more so, in fact, since Walk On The Moon is a lyrically stronger song, as well as being more instrumentally sophisticated in this incarnation.

But then, I had not yet heard the "living-room version" of Sea Of No Cares when I first heard the radio/CD version of that song. I had no idea how that song was written to sound and would not for several years. When I did finally hear the original version of SoNC, with all of its underlying wistfully tenuous hope set free to touch and move and even break a tender heart, even with as much as I had loved - as much as I still love and will always love - the confident, celebratory delight of the radio/CD version, still, it was, and it continues to be, the living-room version that rings the most true, to my own heart and to what can be glimpsed of the songwriters themselves. And yet there is no doubt that the other version - the version so much more in compliance with the accepted and expected image of GBS as upbeat and uplifting and inspiring and unflaggingly optimistic - carries its own measure of truth within it. Truth is seldom as conveniently immutable and reassuringly fixed as we might prefer it to be; instead, it exists in shifting measures across wide spectrums of space and time - often obscure, frequently partial, persistenly elusive.

It was not the substantial differences in the sound of this new version of Walk On The Moon that  startled me - though I suspect that some listeners will indeed by surprised by the polished production and instrumental intricacies of the song, a surprise I sincerely hope is as pleased and delighted as is deserved - but instead the yet-more-substantial differences in the truth of the song, that is, in what the song is about and how it makes the listener (this listener at least) feel and respond. 

The live version of Walk On The Moon, as it has been performed thus far, has told the story of one man's awareness of the lateness of the hour, of his realisation that it is his own fears which are preventing him from moving ahead and achieving his heart's desire, and of his resolve to break free from those fears and face the risks that come with venturing boldly into unknown and unfamiliar terrain. And as it has been performed thus far, the song offers no guarantee of ultimate success, only the promise of newfound hope and the potential of nascent resolve. Using the same metaphor the song uses, that of the Apollo 11 lunar landing and Neil Armstrong's unforgettable words spoken as he took that first step on the moon, the song concludes at the moment when Armstrong, climbing slowly down the landing module's ladder and looking over his shoulder at the approaching ground, reaches out and carefully plants a foot down on the lunar soil.

The new version of Walk On The Moon tells a somewhat different tale. It is arranged in such a way as to swell and soar, the bells now pealing triumphantly over the act accomplished rather than chiding insistently about the act not yet done. Alan's lead vocal is strong and powerful, confident and assured, no edge of doubt or uncertainty to be heard, and that big, big chorus takes the individual's moment of decision and transforms it into a collective celebration of Everyone's successes, an effect that is going to be overpowering in the video if Vision Film really does use submitted photos of the triumphant accomplishments of many others.

Photos of the instant of momentuous decisions which once made might, or might not, lead to such triumphant accomplishments are a far scarcer commodity; such decisions are most often made when we are all alone, most often made in the dark, quiet moments of the soul. Again, using the lunar-landing metaphor as a template, the effect of this version of the song goes on past that first step onto an amazing new world; actually, it more or less begins at that moment and carries through to a mental image of the astronauts leaping and bounding across the lunar landscape, filled with delight over having slipped the surly bonds of their native world.

This version of Walk On The Moon is uplifting and inspiring, powerfully so; it leaves no uncertainty, no hesitancy, no doubt of final outcome. It is an anthem of victory waiting to be sung with conviction by the combined voices of those whose hearts it will encourage as they sing with one another about themselves. Despite the surface differences in instrumentation, it is the arrangement of those very instruments, along with the vocals, which causes the overall effect and impact of this song to be one consistent with what is familiar and comfortable, much-loved and expected, in the music of Great Big Sea.

Does that mean this version is therefore not true, compared to the solo or the group live versions? Of course not. Songs are very much like people: Some are shallow and and one-dimensional, others are interesting but limited, and then there are those which are dynamic and complex, deliciously challenging and delightfully contradictory in all of their many facets and faces. As it was also for Sea Of No Cares, so too is Walk On The Moon deep enough and strong enough and wise enough to embody more than one facet of that which is true; just as the moments of tentative hope leading to individual decision are true, so too are the moments of collective celebration of triumphant accomplishment true. The song itself looks back into the past to just such a triumphant accomplishment, a past truth, as its own central metaphor, as well as for its own catalyst for an equivalent courage in the achieving of a present truth.

The more I thought about that past truth, the more I began to think about other past truths, other walks on the moon that truly were triumphant accomplishments rather than tentative first steps. What came swift and sure to mind in regard to GBS was that first crossing made by four frightened young men, one of them literally sick with nervousness, on the ferry from Argentia to North Sydney; if ever there were a giant leap, if ever there were a brave journey to a completely new world, if ever there were a triumphant accomplishment worthy of celebrating, if ever there were a walk on the moon...that moment was and is all of that. 

One of many such moments, collective and individual, I am sure, with many more still ahead. Most of us, unless we lead very narrow lives, reach that same point where the song's speaker finds himself - standing before a half-open door, poised on the knife-edge between fear and hope - numerous times in our lives; most of us, unless we are very unfortunate, make the choice to set aside our foolish fears and pass through the open door at least some of those times. And every once in a while, we find our heart's desire on the other side. Each of those times, we have our "one shot," our one chance to pass through that particular door, and each time we make the choice to do so, we have the hope of seeing an amazing world on the other side.

While I personally hope that the less-familiar and perhaps less-comfortable facets of truth, the ones that confront and embrace doubt and uncertainty and as-yet-unfulfilled longing, will eventually find their way into a more realistic balance with the more inspiring and uplifting facets of truth in the music and on the stages of Great Big Sea, I have to say that I think the label's choice of Walk On The Moon as the first single release may very well be quite canny. From all I have heard, a number of songs on Fortune's Favour are quite a departure from what is customarily expected from GBS in both sound and sense, so leading into this brand new Hawksley Workman-produced CD with a song that surfacely sounds different and yet evokes a familiar response could be exactly the right choice in introducing the new music. Time will have to tell on that count. For now, I will be content with, as well as grateful for, two beautiful versions of a song I will always love, a song which in any and all of its incarnations will always be AlanStory to me.

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I've been collectiing Daffodil Place  articles and not getting around to putting them up, so here are a few of the ones I've enjoyed the most. The fundraising campaign has been going wonderfully well; this is one dream that is going to become reality, and Alan's efforts continue to be an integral part of making that very worthy dream come true. This is one of those times when he makes it very easy to be proud of him. 

Exit Realty on the Rock has pledged $100 thousand to the Daffodil Place Campaign and announced details of an upcoming fundraising event in September.

Exit Realty on the Rock broker Anne Squires filled up Thursday, recalling when she was a teenager in a small town and her father was diagnosed with cancer. When he had to travel to St. John's for treatment they were short the money neccessary for accomodations. She says that's when she went to a local jeweler and traded in her ring to pay rent for her dad. She says had Daffodil place been around, her father would have had that home away from home when he needed it the most. Today, she is working to assure others have that home. Exit Realty pledged $100 thousand to the campaign on Thursday after a successful fundraiser last June. As well, they have released details of an event coming up in September dubbed, "Exit Realty on the Rock Rocks the Rock with Peter Mansbridge", a black tie gala at the Delta in September. Campaign Chair John Steele says he is overwhelmed. - from VOCM

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Daffodil Place contribution

Corby Distilleries Limited donates $30,000 to Daffodil Place

ST. JOHN'S, Feb. 29 /CNW/ - The Daffodil Place Campaign has received a
generous gift of $30,000 from Lamb's Palm Breeze Amber Rum, Newfoundland's #1
selling spirit brand.

Alan Doyle of Great Big Sea and member of the Daffodil Place Campaign
Cabinet said, "Since Daffodil Place was launched in May of 2007, we have seen
great commitments from corporate entities and we are very pleased to have
Corby Distilleries Limited show their support to the people of Newfoundland
and Labrador by making such a generous gift on behalf of Lamb's Palm Breeze
Amber Rum".

Rick Hollihan of Corby Distilleries Limited, stated that "The 2007
Daffodil fundraising campaign in liquor stores surpassed our expectations, we
are thrilled that consumers showed their support and we are able to give back
to such a worthy cause." Corby Distilleries Limited is a leading Canadian
manufacturer and marketer of spirits and imported wines since 1859. Hollihan
added, "Lamb's Palm Breeze Amber Rum is proud to participate in a project that
touches so many families throughout Newfoundland and Labrador."

Daffodil Place will increase access to care and provide a home away from
home for the growing number of cancer patients seeking treatment. It will also
serve as a community center for a variety of cancer initiatives,  and patient
support programs.

Construction of Daffodil Place is scheduled to begin in the spring with
the doors to Daffodil Place opening in early 2009.

For more information please visit www.daffodilplace.ca

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Government Donation To Daffodil Place

Government donates $500,000 toward the construction of Daffodil Place

The Telegram

The provincial government announced today a donation of $500,000 towards Daffodil Place, a project of the Canadian Cancer Society that will provide accommodations for people who must travel to St. John’s for cancer treatment.

Premier Danny Williams and Health Minister Ross Wiseman made the announcement and was joined by John Steele, chairman of the Daffodil Place Campaign Committee, committee members and members of the board of directors of the Newfoundland and Labrador Division of the Canadian Cancer Society.
“Daffodil Place is a project that promises to have tremendous positive impacts in helping individuals battling cancer who are away from the comforts of their own homes,” Williams said. “I commend the Canadian Cancer Society for its vision and dedication in initiating this project and I am very pleased that our government is providing this substantial support. Travelling from rural areas to the capital city is an added burden for those receiving medical treatment, so I cannot think of a better investment to provide assistance and comfort to those individuals who will be in need of this facility.”

The Canadian Cancer Society will begin construction of Daffodil Place soon, with an opening date in early 2009. The 24-suite facility will provide not only accommodations, but a full range of programs and services for cancer patients and their families.

Steele said the project is a showing of care for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador who will benefit from Daffodil Place.

“Without a doubt, this contribution will be very welcome news for people from all parts of the province who have been touched by cancer,” he said.

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One last edited-in comment that I cannot resist making:  Way to go, Habs!...said with all due respect to the Bruins, who fought hard and played well. Here's hoping the next round will be considerably less thrilling.

Comments

[Laura]

Ive heard it both ways and I like it both ways. Take the two together and it's like the trip all the way from here to there. I wonder how they'll play it live now?

Thanks for linking back to Sean's poem. I haven't read it in a while. :)

L.

[Annie]

I want to love the new version, really really want to. It's pretty and I like the way it sounds, but it's not the same song I heard live. I'm one of the GBS fans who wishes everything from GBS didn't always have to be uplifting and inspiring. It's too easy that way, there's no feeling of effort or struggle, it's a done deal and everybody can feel good about how great it all is without any hard work or dissappointment. Life isn't like that more than it is like that. I wonder how many other people wish the same. Not everyone wants nothing more than that from them or wants to use them for a boost when they feel down. This version is pretty and I hope it's popular, but I liked it better live and I hope they keep doing it the same way.

I'm scared I'll be dissappointed in the video too. Why oh why include pictures of fans in the video? Isn't everything already about the fans to the point of gagging on it? You can't even read the site any more without having to slog through their favorite this and that and the other or all about their kids or their recipes, their movies and books or memories or some other useless piece of information about them, them, them that nobody but them, them, them could possibly give a hoot about. When does it ever stop being about the fans and start being about the band and the music?!?

*end rant* I'm sorry :(

But Yay! Alan for his work to make the cancer hospice happen. He's doing something that might help save the life of somebody he loves some day.

[lynda]

Annie, I remember the night you first heard Walk On The Moon played live too. The crowd was rapt. That was a really good night. Have you seen the Pollstar listing for Northern Iowa U. next March? No clue if that's for sure or not or why in the world it's listing so early, but I hope it is correct.

I don't know many times you've listened to the new version of WOTM, but I recommend multiple times. At least, that's what worked best for me. The first time I heard it, I was torn right down the middle between "Oooh" and "Whoa". Granted, I am very used to the live version. So I kept listening over and over to the new track, over the space of a day or so, to get past hearing it primarily in terms of its differences and to begin hearing it for what it is on its own.

Actually, there are times I react close to that same way when I hear one of their older recorded tracks played. I don't listen to some of the CDs very much and so I start to lose touch with how a song sounds recorded compared to how it sounds live; then when I do hear the recorded version again, it catches me off guard.

I know there are others who also wish for a wider range of artistic expression in the music. I think - and this is more of my Bob-disapproved speculation - that to some extent what goes on is that the majority of the people who want that wider range will still enjoy (and buy) GBS's more uplifiting material, while many of those who expect GBS to be uplifting, who expect that boost they come to GBS for, might perhaps not. So the bottom-line economic question would be this: If they did do material that was a more open and straightforward move away from that which inspires and uplifts, would they draw enough new people to their music to make up for the current fans who might not want it (and might not buy it) that way? Not only that, but would the ones who come to GBS to be uplifted go away completely because of their disappointed expectations in one song, or how about in one CD?

And don't forget that beneath all of the surface fan dynamics is still that foundation of expectation (in Canada, at least, but to some degree in the States too, especially among the Canadian transplants) of what kind of demeanour and music and people Newfoundlanders are supposed to manifest, create, and be. That expectation makes for a strong current to swim against all on its own; when you add in the fan dynamics, that current can be damnably hard to make much if any progress against.

And it is not as if GBS has not done that swimming, all the way from their beginning, in fact. If you go back and look at their CDs, from the start they have done songs both traditional and original that are not at all about doing any uplifting or inspiring: Time Brings, Someday Soon, Fisherman's Lament, Buying Time, Process Man, Wave Over Wave, Nothing Out Of Nothing, How Did We Get From Saying I Love You, Seagulls, Recruiting Sargeant, My Apology, Demasduit's Dream, Boston & St. John's, Bad As I Am, Clearest Indication, Widow In The Window, French Perfume, Own True Way, Summer, Let It Go, River Driver, French Shore, Cod Liver Oil. That's just a start at a list, and then there are all the other songs that while sounding very uplifting still do not fail to acknowledge the troubles and hardships that create the impulse toward seeking out a lift from the music, Ordinary Day perhaps being the all-time classic of that group.

One of the troubles with GBS and this whole Happy Music/Uplifting Music shit is that they keep using the usual Newfoundland approach of taking really serious subjects and making it all sound light-hearted and, yes, even inspiring, which is a thoroughly understood approach at home but nowhere near so well understood in some other places. I cannot believe how many people who have heard the song so far think Straight To Hell is nothing more than an upbeat, cheerful song about how much Alan Doyle loves to play his music. But then there are those who have used Boston as their wedding song. And those who firmly believe that Consequence Free is purely and simply that little paean to being totally irresponsible, along with being sure that When I Am King clearly has nothing at all to say about the myriad of ways in which this world is not a bit how King Alan would have it be.

Yes, GBS plays into this perception/misperception, and they do that playing into it for their own direct benefit. But they come by that way of presenting themselves - as well as their music - honestly, with hundreds of years of tradition behind them. The uplifting and inspiring are going to be there, as expected and as wanted on their part in some degree too, and so will the sweet fun of the cheerful and the foolish. But there is more, has always been more, there in what they do, or at least in what they try to do; you just have to be willing to understand their approach and accept that there very well might be a disparity between how the song sounds and what the song is actually about. As long as someone is thinking that Straight To Hell is about a cheery, upbeat subject - as opposed to simply having a cheery, upbeat sound - they are not doing that.

Maybe it used to be easier to see them expressing themselves across a wider spectrum. I've been told they used to try to do Buying Time - one of their most openly serious, thoughtfully honest original tunes - and not much of anyone wanted to listen to it. When a band hits that point with a song, or with a whole group of their songs, what are they supposed to do? Say, "Goddammit, you are going to listen to this song, like it or lump it!"? Actually,some bands do just that, but most of them don't last very long. A few do, usually after driving away a whole bunch of their original fan base and then attracting new fans, but that is one hairy process that takes majorly brass balls (and preferably sizeable bank accounts) to pull off, - as well as, in their own case, a complete repudiation of how they were raised to respond to people who do not take them seriously, or even accept them for who and what they are.

Seen in that cultural context, the ways in which they have pushed back - such as having it written into their contracts that the word "Newfie" not be used to describe or introduce them and refusing to be forced into such sterotyping stupidities as wearing sou'westers on stage or being hauled onto stage in a dory - are very much to their credit. There are still some Newfoundlanders today who say GBS "made too much of a fuss" about such matters; which is to say, they let the Outsiders see that it bothered them by insisting that it stop being done. There are still some - many, in fact - who think the greater victory lies in never letting on (i.e., remaining "cheerful and easy-going" throughout) that any amount of abuse, stereotyping or misunderstanding bothers you a bit, rather than in deciding you deserve better treatment than that and saying, "Enough - this needs to change."

Which is, of course, eminently convenient for the ones doing the abusing, stereotyping, and misunderstanding. It's certainly one way to deal with such treatment, especially when there is a deep-seated belief that there is scant hope for that change to occur. It's not very often that people bring about change ahead of believing in the possibility of the existence of such change.

All that said, yes, I wish they'd push back more against the expectation that they create art that can exist only within a narrow range of expression, partly out of my own selfish desire to hear all the great music that would come from that pushing back, but even more because I think they might be happier and more satisified (creatively, at least, if perhaps less so financially) if they did. I think about Alan's Young Triffie song, and I wonder how many more such excellent songs - such utterly "non-GBS-as-GBS-is-presently-defined" songs - he could be sharing with all of us who would so dearly love to hear them.

I think the same about all of them. For that matter, when I think about songs such as Walk On The Moon and Sea Of No Cares, I wish they could simply remain as they were written - even when I am also thoroughly enjoying the new form they take when they get turned into "acceptable GBS songs" - because I keep hoping that the definition of what is acceptable as a GBS song can be opened up and permitted to encompass more of who and what the men writing those songs actually are, something I want partly out of a love of and desire for great music, but most of all out of an affection for the men themselves, one that wishes for them the opportunity to be and do whatever they might choose to be and do...trad, original, upbeat, downbeat, rock, folk, reggae, classical, country, inspirational, sardonic, comic, tragic, whatever.

But the artists who are able to do all these things - and still make a decent living while doing so - really are few and far between in the music business, especially when you are talking solely about primary-band efforts and not solo side projects. That business is what it is, and they have to work within its strictures. Given that, I still think this new CD is going to have surprises on it for those who want every GBS day to be the same as the day before until the end of time, in terms of both sound and sense. Give yourself some tine to get accustomed to WOTM in this version, Annie - as you said, it really does sound lovely this way - and wait for June 24th. I think you are going to have a smile on your face too.

The idea of using the photos of others' successes is consistent with the sound of the single version of the song, collective celebration of triumphant accomplishment and all that. I'm kind of wondering how many people will be able to come up with photos that really qualify as the types of accomplishments that fit in with the notion of giant leaps to amazing worlds - how many TA Loefflers are there likely to be in the fan group? Or Brad Gushues, or Michael Ryders? Or for that matter, how many Alan Doyles, Sean McCanns or Bob Halletts, not to mention Murray Fosters and Kris MacFarlanes? - but using the photos of "regular folks" who have faced down the fears that had held them back from doing what their hearts desire would/will give that Universality Of Everyman's Successes tone to the video.

I'm a bit concerned about this last-minute appeal to the fan group for photos; it makes me wonder if perhaps something else that was originally planned for the video did not quite work out and this is a late-in-the-game substitution. Or it could be they already have a set of carefully selected photos ready to go and now they're adding in a few more from fans too, which would be a very good PR move. Practical too...if you want to motivate people to vote and vote and vote for the video on the MMM Top 10, just put a photo of them in that video. They will vote their little fingers to the bone to see it (and make sure others see it too). Over and over, again and again.

I'm not going to go into the fan issue you brought up at too much length; I'll just say this much: The best I do with dealing with fans and fan behaviours is when I think about fans as being customers. Nobody really expects customers to think about much of anything other than themselves. Sure, they care about the business whose product they are after getting, but they care in terms of wanting that business to keep on going so they can keep on getting the product.

Some customers are casual and fickle, some customers are fervent and loyal, some customers are polite and considerate, and some customers are rude assholes who act like the business belongs to them and them alone. I guess because I have worked a series of really shitty customer-service jobs in my life - ranging all the way from the places where even the most obnoxious customers have to be catered to like queens and kings to the places where the customers are systematically abused and where they gleefully abuse right back in turn - that perspective works for me. I'm kind of embarrassed about how long it has taken me to see it this way. Talk about stunned.

To the majority of customers, it's pretty much always about them, them, them, and the business that realises this, accepts it, and finds pragmatic ways to deal with it is the business that is going to be more likely to stick around longer than the business which fights against it over much. The day it stops being about the fans/customers - to some extent, at least, even if perhaps not quite so much as is the case in GBS Land now - is the day the music might stop getting heard.

Back to WOTM, I'm wondering about the live version too. Unless they want to keep Kris really busy back there (and I bet he could find a way to handle it, since he seems able to play most anything) or they bring someone else along to play some of those instrumental parts (Hawksley himself would be a grand addition...and would make for some interesting times on the tour bus), I can't see them fully re-creating the single's sound in a live show. They can certainly kick up the chorus harmonies and adjust the performance demeanour, and likely will, I suppose. It could wind up being a mix between the two versions, a third version in its own way. Which would mean there could be three beautiful versions of a song I love. No complaints from me on that count.

I hope everyone (including Alan) is as proud of Alan as he deserves for all the good work he has done for Daffodil Place. It's an effort that will be reaping benefits for many people for years and years to come, and I hope every single time he drives by that building he realises his own role in making it all come true.

Laura, you are welcome for the link back to Sean's poem. I had not read it for some time either. It brought tears to my eyes, again. Come to think of it, there is quite a song to be found in those words, isn't there? I'd like to believe it could one day be a GBS song...right alongside Where I Belong.

ETA: Forgot to say...Annie, no worries about the rant and no need to apologise. You made good points and made them well. Feel free to "rant" here that way any time at all.

[That Chip Guy]

In defense of a website I rarely read, in response to Annie's complaint about forum chatter about kids and recipies...

If you look at SHOPPING sites such as woot.com or Black Phoenix Alchemy Labs (my wife's perfume oil obsession) -- or websites for video games -- or any website for a neighborhood (virtual or otherwise), communities develop. They don't have to be artificially designated as a community by an Official Corporation to make that happen. Wherever message boards arise, typically you will have "off-topic" chatter and an emerging culture. People who hang out find other things in common. It's a natural and in my opinion INEVITABLE characteristic of communicating on the Web. Say what you will about the general health of the GBS community (online or otherwise) but people talking among and about themselves is itself flat normal.

Back to the main point, which is "Walk on the Moon." I agree with Annie -- I want to like this track more than I do. Part of the problem is the lyrics -- the moon landing metaphor just falls flat to this Babylon 5-loving, spaceship model-building sci-fi geek. I'm so saturated with that imagery that it simply doesn't stand out from the background. The in-concert and songwiter-circle-video versions never rose above the "pretty good song" level for me.

This new arrangement though -- I mean, it's quite LISTENABLE but it sounds generic. Or, to use that ridiculous cliche, "overproduced." (A fan of Blue Man Group really has no business calling this song "overproduced" but there you are.)

There's very little Great Big Sea in there. There's Hawksley Workman, and there's an Alan Doyle, and there's an arrangement that wouldn't seem so out of place if Celine Dion was butchering the heck out of this song.

OK, that's too harsh. It is, objectively, a good song and I've caught myself singing the chorus once in a while. But it doesn't stand out to me as something I'd freeze on if I found it on the radio. And, as someone who jumped in deeply into Great Big Sea's music because of the way it sounded at the time, I evaluate any change in their style not by whether it's what I've been "conditioned" to expect but whether the new style is one I like in the first place.

My appreciation for GBS as artists and as people doesn't rise to the level of devotion or loyalty that would lead me to embrace it because it's the music they want to do. I've left lots of bands "behind" that way, when either my styles or theirs have changed. I don't anticipate this happening with Fortune's Favour, but I'm not a "Straight to Hell" guy and definitely not an "Oh Yeah" guy. I'm a "Tonight," "Here We Go Again" (oh well), and "old school Walk on the Moon" guy. We'll see what kind of album I wind up buying.

Kudos to them for taking some creative risks, of course. As with ANY creative endeavor in this rapidly fragmenting media marketplace, where success is defined by the sustainability of niches of various sizes, especially when none of us (fan or musician) is getting any younger, you have to bring in new blood. Attrition, whether from fatigue or band-and-audience taking divergent turns, is invevitable for a band. The equation is: new fans (today) + old fans (today) > fans (yesterday). If that equation is true, then all other things being true the band can sustain itself. It's IMPOSSIBLE for that equation to be true if you're not adding anything in the new fans column.

[Cathy]

Oohh..&...Whoa. :) That was a good read. Tnanks!

FTR, I like both versions close to equally. I can't wait until the CD comes out.

[Ellen]

I've only heard the live version via your videos, Lynda. I love it, Alan's songwriter's cricle best of all. I like this one too. It's different but it's good in it's own way. I like what you said about songs being how people are, we all have aspects to us that some people like one part of more than others. I hope there are a lot of surprises on "Fortune's Favor". I like surprises. ;-)

The customer comparison is perfect. I could tell so many tales about customers who think they own your soul, bought and paid for on their Visa card.

[Anon and Seriously Amused]

But you have to admit that the whole outcry over the changed deadline was a hoot to read. People stayed up all night for days in a row! {edit} Poured through thousands of photos! Saved whole evenings! Gave up their children! Sold their dogs! (Ok, I exaggerate, but not by much!)

All I can think is "if the fans reacted like a bunch of babies over something so simple, just imagine the resentment and anger that will take place when some photos aren't CHOSEN!"

People keep saying it was a PR nightmare for them to change the deadline. Ok, so yeah, it would have been smarter to just leave the email active, and hit delete for anything that came in after they had what they needed. But no matter how you look at it, the whole exercise is going to turn into a PR nightmare. "Why wasn't I CHOSEN? They didn't pick MINE! I sent in WAY better photos than that person. How could they not recognize this momentous moment of mine?" Followed by the chosen with their "I'm in there, they picked ME, they love ME!"

Stupidest thing of all time, and will only result in trouble.

You know... these guys... I love 'em, but they really need to get some people on their team who have a clue about stuff like this.

[mary]

I really like the new song. It sounds exciting to me, makes me want the new CD which I guess is the whole idea.

[lynda]

Apologies, especially to Chip and Cathy, for the posting delay. We've been having our own extended bomb blast days over here...though not for anywhere near such congratulations-deserving and much-happiness-wishes-to-all-worthy reasons as it sounds like could quite possibly be the case for Sean, per his Twitter comments (still cannot bring myself to say "Sean's tweets" because that sounds far too much like a flatulence reference).

But the end result is probably somewhat similar regardless, bomb blasts being bomb blasts...not much else is getting done beyond riding out the shock wave. I'll be back in a bit to respond to this last batch of comments, and I thank you in advance for giving me so much of interest to respond to. I'll try to hold up my end of the bargain/conversation.

AaSA, I hope you'll understand my edit of one small part of your comment. TMI that shines the spotlight directly on one easily identifiable person, instead of expressing an opinion about the actions of a group or a less-easily-identified individual. My attempt at finding a middle ground between honest expression and personal embarrassment.

I think this ride on the shock wave should be done by tonight, so back sometime after then with perhaps a cogent thought or two. Oh yes, and after the hockey game of course. No piddly little bomb blast is distracting me from that.

[mary]

I just saw the picture thing, I think it may be a very hard concept since a picture without context can be hard to understand. I have a picture of my youngest standing on a play-structure wearing a big orange cast. It means nothing unless you know he broke the arm on that structure and that he is only 4 years old in it. You also need to know about his ADHD and my issues with his safety to see my Walk moment since it is not even really the subject of the photos big step but rather mine the person taking it. Photos that tell a whole story alone without words are art and not usually just kicking around in a fan club.

[Lynda]

Mary, you're absolutely right about the photos. When you think about a photo that can tell an entire story at a glance - one of the all-time classics for me would be that one of the little Vietnamese girl who had just been napalmed running naked and screaming in terror and pain toward the camera - they are few and far between. Even if the camera does happen to capture one of those moments when fear has been conquered and the walk on the moon is being taken - often unlikely enough in itself, except perhaps in the case of performers, athletes, etc. - there is still no explication to give the moment context.

I have a sinking feeling that what is going to happen is that a series of "triumph moments" is going to be what goes into the video...happy, cheering, celebratory moments, I am sure quite significant to those who are in and who took the photos, but lacking a substantive connection to what the song's lyrics are fundamentally saying.

Which of these would be the greater walk on the moon: The child who has been a success at sports from the get-go scoring a goal or hitting a home run...or the child who has had to overcome some sort of serious hurdle who is just barely able to skate across the ice or makes it to the plate and winds up striking out? Which of those is the "great achievement," which is how the photo request on the gbs site was worded. How could those stories be known just by looking at a photo?

And how in the world are a baby's first steps a great achievement (another example used in the photo request), except in special circumstances? That's a natural part of life, unless some big challenge has been overcome, and, again, that doesn't seem likely to be apparent in a photo.

If it goes the way of the Generic Success Stories, it's going to leave the impression that any and all successes/accomplishments that every person achieves qualify equally as fear-conquering walks on the moon, which would be quite a disservice to the song, as well as to those achievements both large and small which truly do require great courage and resolve; the song itself uses quite the outstanding and singular success as its own point of comparison.

So I don't know. On the surface, the whole idea, separate from how it was implemented (more on that in a bit) seems rather sketchy, doesn't it? But this is a very reputable video-production company - they won the Juno for best video this year and one of their present directors was among those recently nominated for a Grammy - who you'd think has a clue about how to do something like this right. I hope they understand the song itself and don't go off on thinking it is only some blanket inspirational hymn that is saying how great and wonderful and fundamentally the same every successful efforts is, regardless of what the accomplishing required. That would make WOTM a generic song about any and all triumph, irrespective of the challenges that led to that point, and the song simply deserves better treatment than that.

I keep going back to the track record of the company and keeping my fingers crossed. I still believe the real strength of WOTM is its honesty, and I hope it gets the honest video treatment it merits.

I like how you described your reaction to WOTM, Mary. Yes, making you want the new CD should be exactly the desired response. I feel exactly that way too.

Anon and Seriously Amused, I think you make an excellent point about the potential/likelihood for fallout/blowback when it becomes known who was and who was not "chosen". Sometimes the crux of a problem can be found in something as simple as word usage: When this started, it was an "open call" for photos; by the time the video producers' apology got posted in that OKP thread, it had been transformed into a "contest". World of difference, and a result which can't be any surprise at all to anyone who has spent time around that segment of a fan group which turns almost everything into a contest.

Looking at it on the surface, there isn't a great deal of laudable behaviour to be found anywhere in this matter. However it was that the video producers might have worded their original photo request, I have a strong suspicion it was not in the cloying "Ever dream of appearing in a music video?" way that the gbs.com site managers put it in their announcement. That kind of wording is pretty much guaranteed to incite someone (several someones, most likely) into jackass behaviours.

Changing the deadline once ample material was received wasn't such a big deal (not for an open call, at least, more so for a contest, I suppose), or wouldn't be such a big deal to most people, but simply shutting down the email address seems a bit abrupt. Although I do wonder if perhaps the gbs.com managers were indeed notified about the changed deadline and closed email address when it happened and never got around to posting that information themselves.

And, again no surprise to anyone who has been around GBS Land for more than a few months, some people got pissed off. But if you look at that thread, only a few of them got pissed off publicly, and there are also a few who sound quite reasonable in responding to the pissed-off complainers. Sure, there are probably many more fans who got pissed off but did not go on about it publicly - almost certainly some of that behind-scenes bitching sent to the gbs.com admins via outraged PMs, since there would almost certainly have been no "apology" and deadline reinstatement from the video producers otherwise - but there are equally likely to have been any fans who were completely accepting of the deadline alteration, as well as plenty of those who thought the ones bitching about it publicly were way out of line.

At the end of the day, the only public evidence of fan reaction comes from the posted comments of a dozen or so people, out of all the hundreds who read the OKP. For that matter, all of the posts on the OKP make up a very small percentage of all the people who read the board, and those OKP posts make up a miniscule percentage of all the people who call themselves GBS fans. That miniscule-but-mouthy percentage often winds up shaping the opinion of what all, or even most, GBS fans are like. This is at times very unfair to all, or even most, GBS fans.

What makes this one such a mess is the fervent desire on the part of some to believe that the band members themselves are totally involved in the photo selection process, at least all the way up to the point where the "winners" become known. Those whose photos are chosen will convince themselves that "The boys chose my photo, which is very nearly almost practically for all intents and purpose the same as the boys choosing ME"...but for those who are not chosen (as well as those who thought they had missed out altogether on submitting photos), it has be entirely the fault of the incompetent third-party hacks who are doing such an inexcusably bad job for the band that they prevented the boys from choosing THEM.

That it could be those Hacks doing both the choosing and the deadline-mucking up is intolerable for the people who need to feel Chosen By GBS. That it could be The Boys choosing and also arbitrarily turning off the email address is even more intolerable to those who haven't gotten their chance to become Among The Chosen.

For the record, my own opinion is that the band members haven't a bloody thing to do with this video - creatively or pragmatically - beyond showing up at the location they are told to be at and doing what the director tells them to do. It's not even up to them what song was chosen...that's a label decision from start to finish. So for those who want to be Chosen, chances are excellent that it will be the video director (or assistant) who does that choosing.

I agree with you that it doesn't seem all that wise to include fans in the video at all, based on potential costs versus potential gains, and it makes me wonder why these video producers would do it in the first place. I wouldn't choose to do it - as you said, no good at all coming out of it when someone whose photo gets selected does everything they can to rub the noses of those not selected in how they won the "contest" (though I think the jealous bitching for the most part will take place behind the backs of the winners, not outright on the site).

For all that there are many great fans who would never do such a shitty, petty thing, I would still be reluctant to run the risk of setting off the kind that would do exactly that. I don't know if that reluctance would or should extend to fans in general or if it's something specific to GBS fans. I tend toward the former; from what I have seen of several different fan groups, it seems the contest over "who owns the band" rages on among some of the fans in all of groups I have encountered thus far.

Even if for some reason Vision Films might not know the potential problems with such a request, you'd think the gbs.com Official Community employees would. It's not like other contests/open calls haven't more or less gone to shit there. When OCC first took over, they had that picture contest that got all tangled up when several of the finalists cheated by voting over and over for themselves, and that turned into a foolish "how can we settle this?" drama. Then there's that ridiculous "open call" logo design. How long has that been left unresolved, with people periodically bitching/begging for some sort of resolution?

Not at all a good track record, certainly not good PR at all, and you'd think eventually somebody would learn...as much as you can, keep fans out of PR matters because no matter how good the majority might be, there will always be a minority that will make you - and the rest of your fans - look like horse's arses to the people who permit that minority to control their perceptions.

Ellen, anytime at all you want to exchange customer stories, I will hold up my end of the tale-telling, I promise. I've met some great people in those jobs, and I have also met some total assholes, the worst of which are indeed the ones who firmly believe that by spending a lot of money in your business, they also buy the people who work there. I do not like that kind of person, no matter where I meet them.

Cathy, I am glad you enjoyed the read and thank you for saying so. Welcome to our little "can't wait for the CD" club.

Chip, I don't read the GBS board enough to say for sure what kind of community interaction goes on there these days, except maybe for the Disabled Children thread, which really does involve a lot of help and sharing. I know even less about shopping site boards since I don't think I have ever seen one.

There are some interesting message boards in the Russell Crowe fan community, one which is very much a community that talks about Russell, posters' personal lives, current events, pretty much everything under the sun. Not only do they talk, but they listen to each other too. They have actual discussions, not a successive series of self-absorbed declamatory posts. It really is impressive. There's another board where the majority of the discussion is "off-topic" (non-Russell, that is) but most of that talk is politics, news stories, and stuff about other celebrities...almost none of it is personal stuff about themselves.

There's one problem with your Babylon 5-loving geek guy example...the difference is that the Apollo 11 moon landing is real, not the fiction all of the rest of it is. It was a real, honest-to-goodnes amazing accomplishment, one that involved risk to the lives of real people and took genuine courage, not scripted bravery. If that doesn't matter...well, I think it should.

You say you hear Alan and Hawksley in WOTM, but not GBS, which is to say, not GBS as you first heard them, the GBS that made you want to jump in deeply and hear more of their music. Not GBS as you might prefer they be. But even if they wind up not sounding that way, that does not mean they are not GBS. They would simply be a different GBS, not "your GBS".

I understand the feeling of some songs not being what would make you freeze if you heard them for the first time on the radio. It was Alan's own songs that made me freeze and listen and jump in deeply - and two out of that four that so indelibly impressed me have still never been deemed to be acceptable GBS songs.

Honestly, I do not know how I would have reacted to GBS if my first exposure to their music had been a whole lot of the very songs some others don't want them ever to stop doing. No, not true. I do know what my reaction would have been if I had heard Paddy Murphy or Donkey Riding or Old Black Rum first...I would have changed the station, because there would not have been enough there of interest to me to keep me listening. And what a great loss that would have been if I had.

It's funny, in a way. I have had to "embrace it because it's the music they want to do" from the very start because some of what they do will never be my music of first choice; while I have come to love some of their trad tunes, others will always be enjoyable to me solely because of how they perform those tunes, the reaction their performance causes in the audience, and the pleasure some or all of the band members get out of that performance. And that's good enough for me. I've never seen that as being a challenge, not when they also perform so much that I do love - originals and trad - without hesitation or qualification.

Your equation is a good one. I tend to think about it in terms of growth and consolidation. You know, for years David worked for a company that was all about growth - quite literally, growth for the sake of growth. They bought out competitors and opened new facilities whether it was needed or made sense to do so, because their stock price was based on the perception of growth, so they had to keep growing, no matter what.

It got to the point where it was more like a pyramid scheme than a business strategy, and finally it came to an inevitable crashing end. The stock price plummetted, there was the predictable retrenchment, and then it became a matter of trying to consolidate and hold onto what little market share they could. Trouble was, they had no idea how to be a company that was focused on keeping what they had...all they knew how to do was go out and get more, more, more.

So they got all panic-stricken about costs and bottom lines; they cut a bunch of jobs and started to reject anything new or risky. Now the gaze was turned completely inward. They focused every bit of energy on keeping existing customers at the cost of acquiring new ones. But attrition bit them in the arse and the stock bottomed out. They tried to get themselves bought, but nobody was interested.

In the long run, they were fortunate; they survived a process that has put an end to many other companies like them. They are still struggling today to learn how to be a balance of both growth and consolidation - making new customers and then keeping some of them and and some of their older customers too, quite the novel concept in this day and age, I suppose - but they're still in the game, and that's a success in and of itself because plenty of others aren't.

All of which could be said about GBS. In a very difficult industry, an industry that is changing rapidly, they need to change too, need to find a way to strike that balance between making X number of new fans while keeping Y number of current fans. I think they're in the midst of that learning curve right now, trying to find their way toward that balance. I do not always agree with some of the steps they take along that path, but absolutely no disagreement that it is a path they have to walk if they too are going to stay in the game. And I want to see them in that game for as long as they want to keep playing.

[Laura]

They could have had the photo contest open for months and not get the kind of pictures you guys are talking about. I know I don't have any of that kind even though I've taken one or two walks on the moon but I've had a lot more usual type run of the mill successes.

LOL! If the first GBS song I'd heard was I'm A Rover I'd have avoided hearing them again. That's a childish male fantasy through and through and I hate the fiddle part. Even though it's a Sean song I'd have changed the station and the same like you Id have missed all the good stuff if I did. I'm lucky the first GBS song I heard was Ordinary Day. :)

L.

[That Chip Guy]

Good point about the reality of the Apollo 11 landing, but I admit that it still doesn't resonate. I played WOTM for a twenty-something friend who's never heard GBS before and he thought that it was too dated an analogy for him. Anecdotes being what they're worth, of course. We're in a science-fictional age, and as a nation the U.S. has become fairly blase about the space program. So I'll agree with you that it _should_ matter but I admit that it doesn't for me and I'm skeptical about the person on the street.

[Roger]

You can tell the truth about us as much as you like but they wont listen to you because it's not the truth they want. They'll stay blind and deaf to anything that doesn't fit in with who they want us to be, saying it's just who we are the whole time. It's our cloak of invisibility. One of these days you'll believe me. :)

Do you think the video will be out soon, like in a few weeks?

[Kath]

I guess it's not fair of me to wish GBS wouldn't go on another cruise because the people clamoring the loudest for them to do it are being so obnoxious about it. I know, there's more nice cruise people don't act that way, yadda yadda, yadda. But if what you say is true, GBS is more likely to give the obnoxious fans what they demand so they can get them to act more obnoxious. What a way to live. I'm not seeing the reward for being nice? Virtue is its own reward maybe? There's a big motivator. :)

What's up with the OKP anyway? Lately it seems like only a dozen people post there anymore and with a new CD coming out that seems strange.

How was Oysterband? Was the show as good as TO?

[Annie]

I didn't mean to say it has to be bad to talk about your kids and recipes on a band site. What I was trying to say is the people there talk about THEMSELVES to each other most of the time or talk at each other if not to each other. One person says what they like or think then the next person says it, and the next person. It's not a conversation, it's not even a boring conersation. It's more like people taking turns talking about themselves and not listening to any voice but their own and that's not something I see as much of on other sites. There are conversations at times on the OKP but when there are they're usually ones I find boring. Maybe the problem is the people there are talking about what they find interesting and they find each other interesting (and they really find themselves interesting) but I don't feel the same way about it. Have you read any of the other tweets beyond Sean's? There's a way to kill off a few million brain cells in 15 minutes.

I guess if I rush to judgment and say gBS fans are shallow as muck puddles based on tweets it's as bad as saying they're boring based on OKP posts because a small group out of the bigger group is doing both. It's still how people will judge, fair or not because there's no way to know what the big group is like to compare. You can't form an opinion about someone you never see or hear.

[lynda]

Annie, your description of people waiting while others talk about themselves for their own turn to do the same reminds me of a lot of "not-conversations" I listen to and am sometimes dragged into, some online and plenty of them offline (long bus rides are fertile ground for not-conversations, as are show lineups). If all someone is interested in is going on about themselves, then maybe it's good when those kind of people find each other and are willing to take turns in that manner; that way, the people who really do want to have a conversational exchange get off the hook a bit.

And the whole matter of who finds whom interesting (or not) is always going to be subjective. I think most of us have favourite topics that might make someone not interested in those topics prefer to have a sharp object inserted in their skull rather than have to listen to us go on. Personally, I prefer people who can converse on a wide range of topics, but for those who can't or won't do that, again, maybe it's a very good thing when they find like-minded others to talk to (or at).

To be as fair as I can to the OKP, I think there are a lot of people who believe that nothing that could possibly cause any "controversy" is supposed to be discussed there, because that's how "the boys" want it to be. Most any series of conversations that diligently avoid all potentially controversial matters are going to tend toward the surface and the bland, even the banal. I'm not saying that's all that goes on there, but I do think it's part of it. And I think many of the people who could be pivotal in starting and continuing interesting discussions don't bother much with commenting there any more.

Which, at the end of the day, probably really is what "the boys" want, or at least the lesser evil of the possible options they are afraid they might get. In some sort of fictional ideal world, it would be great if all kinds of intelligent discussions could take place with no arguments or hostility or bitching or complaining following after. Isn't going to be that way. So now it is what it is.

Just because I said I think it's unfair to judge GBS fans in general by how the few who post come across on the GBS site doesn't mean I think there's any way to keep it from happening. You're right, it's human nature to make judgements that way - to see a whole group in terms of a small, loud, often unrepresentative sample - unfortunate as that so often is.

If you look at it objectively and add up all of the people who comment even semi-regularly about GBS on all the related sites, I doubt you'd be talking about more than 500 people tops, and that's at the high-water mark of a tour/new CD. Most of the time, I doubt it's more than 250 fans who are making up the Voice that puts forth the image of what GBS fans in general are like.

I know for sure there are more people who read the sites than who post - if the ratio of readers-to-posters even begins to approach what I see here on this blog, a whole lot more people read sites than post - but in terms of what impression is formed, that is going to be based on the ones who speak up, and that is a very small percentage. Talk about icebergs up the Gut.

Think for a moment about all of the thousands and thousands of fans GBS has; think of Molson with something like 7,000 or more people there alone, and the 20,000-plus who will be at Bluesfest. Add in so many more in all of the other cities they play across the continent and then into Europe too. And that is still only the ones who come to their shows. What of all the thousands more all around the world who enjoy the music in their homes?

When you look at it from that perspective, what a handful of people are saying online - or for that matter, how an even smaller handful of people might be behaving at their shows - really carries very little objective weight in terms of their being any genuine voice/reflection of the fan group in general. But the subjective weight - how others wind up perceiving the GBS fan group - is something else entirely. The vast majority of people will never see those other thousands and thousands of fans, so that won't be their standard of comparison; most of them will form opinions based on the tiny bit they do see. And from there it's only one small step to coming to conclusions about the band based on what you have decided to think about the fans. Even nore unfair, but still part and parcel of human nature.

I skimmed some of the tweets of others for a day or two after Sean started up, and that was enough for me. There are some people who use the Twitter format along the same clever lines that Sean does, and some others who use the format to be very informative, but I didn't find very much of any of that taking place among the GBS-related ones.

Twitter makes reasonable enough sense as a kind of a non-instant messenger conversation among a group of friends (though the perceived need for it all to be done in public - with the underlying "Look At Me!" presumption of interest to those not in the friend group - is rather amusing), and I can see the value of it being used by one well-known but safely distant person who a lot of strangers want to know more about. But for Regular Person A to be reading about Regular Person B looking for something of inherent interest or value seems an overly optimistic investment of time that could be better spent elswhere. I like those little brain cells and would like to keep them happy and healthy.

Kath, not only are there plenty of nice cruise people who aren't being obnoxious (a few I know personally, for sure many more I don't), more importantly is that not for one moment do I believe the band members would invest a full week of their valuable tour-schedule time into doing a cruise for the sole reason of proving for the umpteenth time how obnoxiously demanding some fans can be. Sing a song some jerk has been screeching for all show long to prove the same...sure. Ask an asshole who stuck a humongeous telephoto lens up their nasal passages all show long if they managed to get good photos...you bet. Orchestrate the most foolish behaviour possible to show how far people will go to suck up to their target objective...hell yes. Easy (and best of all, inexpensive) ways to make a point that really did not need to be made in the first place (has not needed to be made any more for quite a few years, actually) but will keep right on getting made and re-made regardless. But investing a full week of their tour time in that dubious cause? No way. Not easy and not a bit inexpensive. Just the opposite.

If they choose to do it, it will be because the money is right and/or the end goal is worthwhile, same as with all their gigs, because that's what the cruise is too: A gig, just one that takes up a really big chunk of on-the-road-time. It's not a vacation for them (last time I checked, you pay to go on vacation, you don't get paid to be there...that's called "work") the way it is for the people who do pay out the wazoo to be there, and it's sure not the year-long central focus for them it apparently is for some people. It's not a much-needed respite in the sun for them, either; if they want the vacation or the respite, they'll go on their own time and dime to the Bahamas with the people they choose to be on vacation with.

If they do a cruise, then that means they decided it's a gig that can give them what they're looking to get. They may do some silly little inconsequential things to provoke the obnoxious into being even more so (being fair to Bob - I haven't seen him doing this much if at all), but at the end of the day when it comes to the big stuff that matters, they're very smart and pragmatic men who do whatever they believe they need to do to get done what they've decided they want to get done. Of course, if that hard-nosed business decision also happens to keep on proving the theory of pervasive obnoxiousness, nobody ever said you can't kill two birds with one stone.

While there really are those times when virtue is its own reward (because if not, there sure as hell isn't going to be any reward at all) - still, I don't believe making the attempt to be nice or considerate or to care about someone else is without external point or purpose. I think more along the lines that you try your best to do something good for the people you care about, to give something, even something small. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But still wanting to give regardless of the existence or otherwise of obvious reward and even when you've made big mistakes in the attempt seems an indivisible aspect of the caring. I wouldn't know how else to go about it.

Though sometimes "Virtue" really does have its head up its arse, I must admit. For the longest time, I thought (and I've met quite a few others who have thought the same way) that something positive was accomplished solely by being "not like them" - not like the people who push and paw and grab and force their way in, wanted or not - by backing off and scurrying away. That was somehow supposed to convince the target objectives that not every person was out to use them, but really all it accomplishes in the long run is to leave the field wide open to the biggest users and abusers, not a particularly effective way to care about anyone.

I guess there's a real arrogance underlying any belief that any one person can "make up for" the shitty actions of somebody else. At the end of the day, the only course of action that makes much sense at all is to realise you can only be responsible for yourself and your own actions and to try to be the kindest and most caring person you can be in the best way you know how. And when you fuck that up...learn from your mistake and keep right on trying. I don't know...maybe "Virtue is an inescapable part of caring/Reward optional"?

No clue about OKP traffic. When I checked over there for the photo-submission thread, it did look a bit slow, but I am out of touch with the big picture there since I've pretty much been keeping to Alan's and Bob's journals and only skimming the rest every now and then. Has it been slow for awhile? Did it pick up with the single release? Hits here on the blog have gone up noticeably since then, lots of searches for Walk and Fortune's Favour, so I'd guess that's probably even more true for the official site, the other GBS-related message boards too.

Lots of people never bother with fan sites until something like a new CD or tour happens, both reading and commenting. Traffic will go up soon enough, with new people coming in once the tour starts up. At least, that's been the pattern since I've known about GBS. I came along during the last months of what had been a long lull between CDs and watched the transition to the Sea Of No Cares fans becoming dominant for a stretch of time. Then some of them began to wane in their fervour and another batch came in with the Something Beautiful shows and CD. Same process with The Hard & The Easy.

Some people stick around, but for a lot of others there's a cyclical nature to which group of fans is the most "ardent" (prominent online and at shows) at any given moment. I hope they get new people in...they sure work their arses off to accomplish that result.

We did make it to the Vancouver Oysterband show, and it was excellent. I've got a slew of videos and some pretty good pictures too that I will get around to getting up when I can. I actually managed to upload three of the videos in the hotel room after the show, but the rest will have to wait a few more weeks until I am back on dialup again. I think I will probably write about them before that, though. It's really been a tease in my mind since seeing them about how what they do is so much like and yet still unlike what GBS does, the similarities and differences of what they do and how they do it. John Jones said a few interesting things along that line, and those are a few more pieces to the puzzle I've been trying to put together in my mind.

I think they played cleaner in TO, but that the very enthusiastic Vancouver crowd was much more of an inspiration to them. It was apparently the first crowd of the tour that actually got up and danced, not at all a bad way for the final show to go. Both shows were great, each in its own way.

Roger, I'm guessing the video will be out quite soon, definitely in a matter of a few weeks at the very most. And I already believe you about those who will not let go of what they want to believe about Newfoundlanders. I am not talking to those people, never really have been and most certainly am not now. I'm talking to the people who do not have that need to cling to bigoted lies and limiting stereotypes. I know there's no hope with the ones who do.

Chip, your point is in turn good. No matter how much something should resonate, if it does not, that needs to be accepted. If a person doesn't know the Armstrong quote - and I guess even if it still gets taught in school, it's not treated as something pivotal to a past generation - you lose a lot of the power of the song.

I think the Challenger disaster went a long way toward ending the passion most people felt for the space program. Hope crushed is often unlikely to rise back up to become hope once again. I was thinking just that when I paraphrased the "surly bonds of earth" line Reagan quoted at the memorial ceremony, even while I was thinking "Nobody is going to get this reference, except maybe a few other history buffs as geeky as I am."

The reality/fiction line gets so blurred, not just with scifi/space stuff. We were looking at the dinosaur exhibits in the ROM a few weeks ago, and there was a little boy (maybe 5 or so) with his mother next to us. He looked up at the Tyrannosaurus Rex skeleton with wide-eyed awe. "Are they real?" he asked in a quivering voice. "No, they aren't real," she said matter of factly. I watched all of the wonder drain away out of his face, which now took on that knowing "You can't fool me" smirk. That foolish mother stole the wonder of reality from her child. That seems like such a shame to me.

Laura, Rover's never been one of my favourites, though I did begin to see it differently (in context, I suppose) when I saw GBS perform it with Fergus and Dermot - from whom they learned the song - at the Delta Christmas show in 2003. And, to give them credit, it's not as if they sing Rover with all that much straight-faced seriousness. It's decidedly tongue-in-cheek time, and I'll confess to loving how the perenially and charmingly spotlight-stealing Alan acts out the lyrics. Sometimes, childish males and their fantasies are quite irresistible. But I will agree that if I'd heard it on the radio as my first GBS tune, it wouldn't have exactly captured my lasting attention.

The first song I heard was Ordinary Day too. I just had no clue about it being a GBS song.

I have a few photos of others taking their walks on the moon, but none where that is absolutely clear in absence of any accompanying explanation. But I've got a kajillion photos of those typical success moments - weddings, graduations, births, trophies, hiking to the top of the mountain, performances, you name it. I have a feeling that's going to be what winds up in the video, which would, in my opinion, not serve the song as well the song deserves. But the song still remains all that it is no matter what the presentation, just as the songwriter still remains all who he is, no matter what the persona or perception. Wonderful song, wonderful man - that's good enough for me.

Which is not to say a great video of a hit song wouldn't be grand too. I can always make room for a bit more Wonderful.