"I'll Make It Worth Your While" Part One - Russell Crowe Joins Great Big Sea At Shamrockfest & The Most Magical Moments Of All

Other people know Russell Crowe as a great actor, but I call him my friend. - Alan Doyle, intro for Russell coming out to sing the encores (Folsom & Molly Malone) with Great Big Sea (and Carbon Leaf)

You're Irish - you have to act like a fool on St. Pat's. - Scythian front man

"Folsom" Russell Crowe, Alan Doyle, & Great Big Sea, Shamrockfest, Wash. DC, March 2008, video download        (Quicktime file, 240 MB)

"Molly Malone" - Great Big Sea, Russell Crowe, & Carbon Leaf, Shamrock Festival, Wash DC, March 2008, video download          (Quicktime file, 132 MB)

There are times at shows when I begin to seriously question why it is I am there, sometimes because of how idiotically unruly a crowd is being, other times because of how predictably a particular subset of the fan base is behaving.  The latter is far more common at GBS shows than the former, and thus equivalently more patience-testing, but when the former begins to happen - usually at rowdy festival-type shows that are built around trying to encourage people to drink themselves into a state of utter stupidity -  and nonsense such as shoving, crowd-surfing and getting kicked in the head combines with the usual The Purpose Of This Show Is For Alan/Sean To Notice Me! antics...those are the times I find myself grimly clutching the barrier and questioning whether I am a fool for being where I am, and not just on St. Pat's.

It was a long day and a rough time at Shamrockfest yesterday, with the most unruly behaviour taking place at the "Bud LIght Stage" at this Drink Till You Drop 100 Points Off Your IQ festival.  I saw little kids who never should have been there in the first place be terrifed by the fool crowd-surfers and the pushing. I saw a woman slap a drunken boy across the face for nearly crushing her kids. I saw a fool blow out his knee in the mosh pit who was then crowd-surfed up to the front screaming that he needed to be carried out. I put up with the usual foolishness you have to endure when you are a small woman surrounded by large reeling drunken boys-not-yet-men (I always wonder where the small drunken boys/men are at these kind of shows...certainly nowhere near me). 

After hours of this - interspersed with some good music and some otherwise music - the chaos culminated during the CL set; I couldn't even tell you what CL played during the second half of that set, since I was wedged between crowd-surfers and panicked women behind me and huge security guards pulling people over the railing in front of me.  During the break between CL and GBS, whose headlining set would close the festival, there was a half hour of pushing and shoving as people tried to get up to the barrier; the security fellows were talking about how they hoped it would be over soon (curiously, they also told me that this show was nowhere as near as bad comparatively as the totally out-of-control actions at the Chili Cookoff - I am still pondering that piece of info). I held my ground, tightened my grip on the barrier and wondered about my sense.

Then the opening music begins to play and the questions vanish, on this night exactly the same as they have vanished on each and every other night in the past, the same as they are going to vanish on each and every other night to come.  No matter what those opening notes might be - even when Donkey Riding is what kicks of their show (absolutely the right choice with the Shamrockfest crowd...but starting  with Tonight the night before at the Atlantic City HOB show was a brilliant move), still, I look up at the stage and into Alan's face, and doubt is banished. One smile, one intent gaze, one rock-star strut is sufficient answer. This time...each and every time.

Seeing GBS play their Shamrockfest set was already more than enough to make all that led up to it worth my while, especially seeing how the rowdy nonsense really did die down once GBS came out on stage, mostly because there were now so few people willing to get the crowd-surfers up and help them on their way toward the front. Most everyone was instead listening and singing along; successful crowd-surfing requires participation on the part of many in the crowd, and the participation of nearly all in this crowd had switched to doing what that charming and insistent fellow up on stage was asking them to do; he had won their attention and their allegiance, and to those of us who had been in the midst of that boisterous crowd all day and endured how things had gone earlier, this was an awesomely impressive accomplishment.  Again, worth my while to see all on its own, exponentially more so when coupled with the sweet smile and the determined face.

Then, at the end of a swift, fierce, compelling GBS set that had already shown me all I had most wanted to see - at the end of a very long day - something happened that was wonderful beyond expectation, though certainly not beyond hope. I knew Russell currently was in DC filming - as soon as I had heard he was heading into town, I sent my own message to someone who I hoped would pass it along if need be, simply relaying the information that Alan and GBS would be playing DC on this night - and I went to Shamrockfest hoping, hoping, hoping.  A measure of that hope was purely selfish: I haven't seen Russell and Alan on stage together since Canberra, Australia Day 2006; after seeing so many of the Oz shows done by Alan and Russell and Russell's band The Ordinary Fear Of God, after having such a wonderful time at those shows and thinking so highly and well of the My Hand My Heart music Alan and Russell created together...I wanted very much to see the two of them back on stage together, nearly as much as I want to see the two of them creating more new music together.

And a measure of that hope was more generously altruistic, even if perhaps a bit impertinently so. I happen to think both the artistic collaboration and the continuing friendship between these two men is something that is beneficial to each of them. They seem like two people who have much to learn from each other, as well much to share with each other. Impertinent again, but I think they're good for each other, and that's more than enough for me. I was already some fond of the Sweet Petty Harbour Boy/Complicated-Conflicted Endearing Man/Brilliant Songwriter/Rock Star Guitar God before this collaboration/friendship began, and it didn't take much time at all to think well of the Multi-Disciplinary Musician/Songwriter/Actor/Master Storyteller. I love the music they make together, but even more than that, I love the smile I see on Alan's face when he and Russell are sharing their music on stage. The smile on Russell's face at those same times isn't a bit shabby either. Seeing those two smiles again after missing them for the past few years was an incredibly sweet experience, raising "worth my while" to a transcendent level.  My continuing hope is that they each have the opportunity to do as much and to be as much as they hope for themselves...I would dearly love to see more of those smiles on both faces. Hope satisfied lives on, stronger than before.

In a few days I will write something more substantial about both the DC Shamrockfest show and the HOB Atlantic City show, setlists and crowd stuff and all the customary shit, though I won't wait any longer to say I  thoroughly enjoyed the scrambled set list in AC, and Sean did a bang-up job on their new-on-the-upcoming CD (June 24th, titled Fortune's Favour) Newfoundland trad tune The Rocks Of Merasheen. No photos or video from the AC show (because it was an HOB show), but lots and lots of pictures from Shamrockfest, plus a rather bouncy video (not all of the rowdiness died down immediately; Alan had to earn the control he achieved) of Tonight, which was wonderful on both nights. Oh yes, and audio-only of a gloriously sexy Oh Yeah from the HOB show...the camera that can't be seen behind the barrier might not be able to take pictures, but it can still get sound, and these are very good sounds.

I don't have photos of Russell out on stage with GBS & Carbon Leaf since I concentrated on video instead, but I am sure there are going to be umpteen photos, based on the scramble for any and all kind of camera I saw taking place as soon as Russell walked out onto the stage; it was a huge crowd (I think around 15,000 per Barry, but I am not sure) and there were also several pro photographers and band-hanger-on photographers at stage edge. There will be pictures, probably more video too, from others. The person I was there with took a few shots when I wasn't in her way videoing, and I'll put those up too when I get them edited. For now, I am scrambling to get both videos uploaded and linked before I have to check out and go catch my flight to Edmonton. If there is only one video link here up at the top, that means the second one will come later, maybe while I am waiting at the airport to change planes or later after I check into the Edmonton hotel.  If they are both here, then I'll write more and put up photos some time after I make my way back home.  St. John's to Seattle via Ottawa-Toronto-Philadelphia-DC-Chicago-Edmonton-Vancouver has to be one of the oddest paths I have ever travelled. So far. With every single mile worth my while - and then some.

Then again, I suppose I am pretty easy. For all of those magical moments almost too wonderful to hope for, there is always the sweet simplicity of the most magical moment of all - that moment when the Petty Harbour Boy has me, when he always has me, at "Hello".

Comments

[JoAnn]

Lynda..

The downloads will have to wait for me to get to work tomorrow..oh what a reason to get up in the morning! When I read this I felt your pain at being at the big pushy drunk show...but then I felt MY pain at missing the two favorite gentlemen on one stage. Oh to see the videos...
Can't wait for more descriptions..as always

JoAnn

[Christina]

God love the pair of them; they are so sweet. It's been far too long since Alan and Russell have shared a stage. Looks like they were having fun. Thanks for catching it so we can all see it too.

Any idea what Russell is filming that he has his hair grown out?

[Laura]

wOOt! Great videos...Russell frigging Crowe, oh my! That must have been a blast for all of GBS and Carbon Leaf too. Yeah, it's gotta be worth a few kicks in the head to get to see that. Thanks for sharing!! :D

Hey what's up with this Atlantic City VIP afterparty? Did you go to that? It doesn't sound like GBS's SOP? Since when does Sean snuggle up to the pack of Seanivores?

L.

[Jenn]

Oh this is marvelous! Do you think RC might record an album with the guys? That would be so excellent!!

[Maria]

Russell looks wonderful and everybody else looks thrilled he's there. Next time keep the camera focused on him! You are impossible when it comes to the Doyle. LOL!

[Ellen]

The videos with Russell Crowe are spectacular, Lynda. Thanks for being in the right place at the right time and sharing the wealth. I'm always surprised by how good Russell is with music.

Did you make it to Edmonton? Was it a good show? It sounds like the St. John's weather has been awful. Are you going back to shovel some more now?

Safe travels wherever you go. I hope your St. Patty's Day was fun.

[lynda]

My customary apologies for taking a long time to post comments, on this entry and the one before. It's been hectic and I have been having some unsettling laptop problems. Right now I am typing in-between bouts of packing up, so we'll see how much gets said and in what measure of coherence.

Ellen, Russell really is quite good, isn't he? I know just what you mean about being surprised by that at first. I expected he would be an excellent performer because of his prodigious acting skills, and even his great storytelling skills weren't that much of a surprise to me - a delight, to be sure, but not a surprise- but his singing and playing are quite good, have been all through his older music too. But it wasn't until Russell and Alan started to write songs together that Russell caught my attention on that front. The songs the two of them write together are distinctly different from what either of them writes on their own or with other collaborators, and so far (always hoping for more, of course), I am so impressed with what they have accomplished. And they put on a hell of a show together.

I think I got out of town just minutes before it all started going to shit and it's still happening there. No, I am headed home and won't be back in St. John's for a bit, though I still might wind up having to shovel more snow there when I do. It's not at all unusual for snow in April and May there, even shovellable snow, so it will depend on my timing, I suppose. This one is out of my control...I have to come back on somebody else's schedule and I don't know the timing yet.

So, yes I did make it to Edmonton. I got into the airport at 1 am on Monday and was too cheap to book a hotel room for what was left of that night, so I spent some quality time in the airport and then got my hotel to let me check in early Monday for the one night. I was supposed to take a nap, but got distracted by the West Edmonton Mall, which is across the street from my hotel. Really, really odd place, even more so walkiing around in it at night when all is closed. Spooky. More on that later.

Actually, I was going to write about the Edmonton GBS show when I got back into the room last night, but a combination of being exhausted and still reeling a bit from a totally unexpected moment of (sadly explicable) cruelty from someone I had mistakenly thought was a friend who wound up being a fan instead wound up changing my plans and I was just relieved to get back to the room where it felt safe for the night and I could get some sleep. Funny how a place you are at for only one night can become a refuge from the storm.

Then I was going to go ahead and write about Edmonton this morning, but there are still a whole bunch of people coming onto the blog from links on Russell Crowe sites to see the Shamrockfest videos, so I want to keep that entry most visible for a bit longer. It always amazes me how many hundreds of people follow links off of the Crowe boards. Jesus.

All of which means I won't be writing about Edmonton quite yet, not officially, though I really do want to. There's lots that could be said. St.Patrick's day is always important to me because of my own family history - bittersweet for the same reason for quite a few years now - and this was an interesting show for a number of reasons. Not so much in how they played it - they played it like a St. Patrick's Day show with the set list you'd expect for the same, pretty much enough said right there, certainly nothing I could say that they don't already know about their show in those regards - but the audience makeup/responses/comments and the venue stuff were really interesting, to me at least. And because I was not at all in my "usual spot," - as well as there being a strict "no photos' rule - I got a chance to see some of what I often miss at shows, especially Bob's accordion playing and Kris's drumming.

After my unexpected unpleasant encounter, I seriously considered just getting back on the shuttle and coming back to the hotel for the evening. As I said, it's already a day that is emotional for me, and that encounter did not help. Add in some bad news on the sick friend front, and my state of mind was very much "Life is too short for this". It has been a very long time - certainly more than GBS's 15 years of St. Pat's Days as a band and even more than my own 20 years of St. Pat's Days without my Dad - since I had to spend a considerable amount of time hiding in a bathroom stall trying to decide whether to stay or to go.

By the time I finally remembered that I'd already made that decision long ago and far away, it was time to go in, so I did. And I don't regret it. There were a few moments in this show that were priceless, including Alan's Dancing With The Stars "Petty Harbour Kodiak Two-Step" and his Every Rose Has Its Thorn. Sean's sitting-at-stage-edge Danny Boy came perilously close to making me cry my fool head off right then and there; I grew up hearing that song sung every St. Pat's Day...up until 20 years ago. Sometimes the very sweet is also the very hard. Speaking of which...that had to have been the sexiest Excursion I have ever seen Alan do; he was so frigging sexy that I thought my knees were going to give out on me during his performance - Bon Frigging Jovi could take a lesson or two (or three or four) from the Petty Harbour Boy. Sometimes I wonder just what the Newfoundland Trad Tune Purists make of how Alan's Excursion is such a purely pleasurable lascivious delight. The full-band Clearest encore felt like hope again too.

I found Sean's comments about the new CD intriguing, promising too. And I will say more about this later when I really write about the show, but for now I'll leave it at there being absolutely no comparison with how GBS came across as a band when doing Tonight and Walk On The Moon and how they came across when they were doing "The Expected Hits". If your new music is showcasing that much more of what you can do than your older music shows...then that is growth. It's accomplishment enough to stay together for 15 years; to still be growing after 15 years - and for the results of that growth to be so notable - is the most impressive accompishment of all.

I'm glad I stayed. I'm always glad I stayed, eventually. I am still not quite sure how to resolve the "Life is too short for this" matter in my mind. But I will resolve it; I always do that too. Maybe it's as simple as "Life is too short not to care about those who matter to you, even when you find yourself in a place where there isn't much time or space or value assigned to caring." Maybe life is too short not to allow yourself to love whenever love is there, regardless of what does or does not follow after. Maybe. I'll think about that some more on the plane, if I can stay awake long enough to do so.

Hello, Maria. I found those videos really tricky to do because I was trying hard to get everybody into them (really a challenge with the Carbon Leaf guys came out too), even though I knew so many would want to see Russell most of all. And of course there are my usual Alanesque inclinations. Add in that I was pretty far over the left side, and it was quite a challenge.

Jenn, I would be endlessly surprised (even shocked) if Russell and GBS did an album together, though I could certainly see (and hope for) GBS doing some of Alan's and Russell's co-writes on a GBS CD. GBS has already done bits on Russell's My Hand My Heart CD, and of course Russell had been doing Alan's How Did We Get From Saying I Love You with TOFOG for years, so who knows what the future might hold for those kind of collaborations/crossovers?

No, Laura, I didn't go near the Foundation Room. I've had a bit of experience with their setup in the past, and it's a scene that doesn't appeal to me very much. It tends to be another one of those "pound of flesh" sort of scenarios, where people purchase their way into "personal access" - with HOB it's usually about paying mucho moolah for a private membership or forking out the big bucks for one of their suites to obtain that access...though on slow nights HOB does open the doors to the hoi polloi on occasion since it looks bad for them if the artists show up to an empty lounge.

Not to shit overmuch on HOB for such practices though - there are a lot of venues where the artists who play there are contractually required to go through the Meet and Greet rigamarole with season subscribers and such as part of the overall gig, and it's a rare backstage at any band's show where there are not those who have used some sort of commodity (family connections, employee connections, calling in favours, shelling out hard cold cash to security workers, offering someone some drugs or tits or a blow job) to purchase that same kind of access. Rules of the game, completely expected by all who play that game, but still not something I want very much to be around. Been there, done that a very long time ago.

The last time I was in a HOB Foundation Room was back in LA during GBS's Uprooted Tour. I have to admit watching Alan's meteoric arc across the room, spinning his way from one encounter to the next, never letting any grasping hand alter or delay his trajectory, was utterly fascinating. A bit horrifying too, but fascinating all the same. He was absolutely marvellous to behold that night, but that sort of thing is so much easier to witness when you don't give much of a shit about the people doing it. It's less easy when you care.

My take on Sean's activties that night is that it's good to see him out there holding up his end of the bargain, same for the rest of them. It's been way too often over the years that this part of their job has fallen disproportionately on Alan's shoulders, albeit with reliable support from Murray and Kris, and Darrell before them. It's got to be better for Alan if this expected part of the job is shared more, and "better for Alan" are three little words I happen to approve of. I'd like to see a Better For Alan sort of world.

Christina, they did look like they were having so much fun together; I love seeing that particular gleeful smile on Alan's face. It has been way too long. I hope they get more of that fun sooner or later.

Russell is growing out his hair for his upcoming Nottingham role, where he will be playing a revisionist Sherrif Of Nottingham in the Robin Hood legend. He's been wearing his lovely long locks beneath a wig during State Of Play shooting - that film is why he was in DC in the first place.

JoAnn, I hope you have gotten a chance to see the videos by now. I wish you could have been there. One of these days, you and I will be right there to see Alan and Russell together. I really do believe it will happen. God only knows when or where, but I am not going to stop hoping and believing.

OK, enough for me for now. I have a bag to finish packing and a room to get out of. Then, it's back over to that weird mall.

[Ellen]

Damn faithless friends to hell. I'm sorry that happened to you, Lynda. I saw the latest !!!! addition to the GBS site. Please tell me this hasn't been about "competition" all along. Anyone who stands by and lets nasty lies flourish because of a stupid fear of losing a buck or two deserves to be slapped, hard. IMO of course.

Here's a loaded question for you if you want to answer publicly: Are GBS nice people? What about the people who they hire to do their dirty work? IYO of course. ;-)

I hope your friend (the real friend not the fan fake friend) is doing as well as can be hoped and not in pain or discomfort. Prayers and good wishes to your friend and all the family, and to you too.

Hugs,

Ellen

[Leslie]

Lynda,

I hope all is well on the sick friend front. Sadly, I know all too well how that is.

I've been dealing with both a sick, sick, sick friend and a sick mother, and I'm about ready to hide my head under the covers and never come out again. That's mostly the reason I skipped out on Shamrockfest. I'm not a huge Russell Crowe fan, but that looks like it might've been worth getting kicked in the head/shoved/etc. Next time. Although I suppose there probably won't BE a next time for something like that.

I spent much of the show on Friday night attempting to send the abovementioned sick friend what I like to call GBS vibes. She's a huge fan, and to have her miss yet another show because she's in the hospital yet again, facing yet ANOTHER surgery, just killed me. Especially during Walk on the Moon, which just reminds me of her, as does Something Beautiful, so THANK GOD that's not in their regular setlist rotation. I'd lose my mind. If I seemed a bit scattered and not quite with it, that's because I was. Heh.

In any event, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the HOB show whenever you get to them. I still haven't totally pieced mine together, but I definitely agree with you about the amount of growth you can see in the newer stuff vs. the older. I have a feeling we are in for a real treat when this album finally comes out, whenever that might be.

[Stephen]

The blog did cut off my comment, but now I can't recall what I said. Sorry but if it was important it should come back to me evnetually. I'm glad you got the chance to see Russell Crowe and Alan together again. I have an idea how much you enjoyed that, probably as big a grin as is there on Alan's face in the video. Good for both of you.

I've been to a few special access events for fans, for authors and musicians. Even though some of them tried hard to make it feel real I always left feeling like a necessary evil. I don't go near that kind of event anymore. When I looked around at the other people there too it wasn't how I wanted to be identified, if that makes much sense. Wouldn't the recent cruise be another example of a pay for access event?

If you're back now, welcome home. Now get some rest. Then tell me what Sean said about the new CD that intrigued you. I'm intrigued by your intriguement.

I wonder if it will cut me off again? Does it do it to you?

[lynda]

There are times I understand why GBS doesn't object to their fan forum being founded on the principle of relentless banality...it does tend to discourage loaded questions. Sheesh - you guys are going to get me into (even more) trouble.

I suppose I could always edit (censor) such a question. I have in the past, and really pissed off a few people in so doing. I've never followed the example set for me and banned anybody here, but there are a few who have said their fare-thee-wells to commenting here because of those edits. I miss them.

Your question really is loaded, Ellen, though maybe not exactly in the way you might think. I'll try to answer as best as I can (yes, in my own opinion for all of it), though I am not sure how well I am going to do. It's always hard to discuss something that comes down to a matter of individually subjective definitions and perceptions.

I'm not a bit sure that we all mean anything near the same thing when we say another person is (or is not) "nice" - no matter if we are describing someone close to us, or someone we know casually, or someone about whom we have little more than a general impression based on observation and hearsay.

I think that to some people, "nice" is largely a matter of what I'd call Public Behaviour - how a person comes across in casual day-to-day interactions with others. If that's the standard some want to go by, well, freedom of choice for them and no worries. I have some reluctance to put too much reliance on that standard, though, since I think a lot of us tend toward acting like we are nicer than we really are, especially when it comes to casual interactions, where, frankly, it's easier to act nice because it's quick and there's not much of any genuine value or importance on the line.

Then there's the attitude that you can't always judge a person by their public behaviours. This cuts both ways: Just because a person makes nice, that doesn't mean they necessarily are nice; on the other hand, it also means that it's possible for some people to be genuinely good and decent - and "nice" - even if their public behaviours at times leave somewhat to be desired. And even if at times they act like jerks.

I know that a lot of people are very invested in the "You Are How You Act" attitude. Maybe those folks tend to be more upfront about who they themselves are and that causes them to assume that everyone else is the same way. But for anyone who has had to deal a lot with the public, or who has been around those who have to do such dealing, it becomes much easier to accept the existence of a sizeable gap between the public face and the private person. And the idea of "sincerity" becomes much more fluid, as well as rather problematic.

My own personal definition of "nice" includes a firm belief that it is equally as possible for a genuinely nice person to act like an utter asshole as it is possible for an utter asshole to act like a genuinely nice person. I tend to see the differences between how people act and who people are, along with the contextual circumstances for those differences. But, again, that is only my own personal opinion; others clearly see it all quite differently.

So much for how to perceive "nice". How about how to define "nice" in the first place? Is it being friendly, smiling, and polite? Is it being thoughtful, considerate, and kind? Or is it more about being honest, loyal, and acting with integrity? Can you be "nice" in how you stand behind a person while you are also kicking that person in the arse for creating the need for that standing-behind? Can you be so sweet that butter wouldn't melt in your mouth and charm the pants off everyone you meet, but still be a first-class selfish pig?

Maybe a more pertinent - certainly a more interesting - question might be whether a person thinks of himself or herself as being nice, what that notion means to them and if they think niceness is a desirable standard/goal. My own definition of "nice" tends toward the concepts of not hurting those who are weaker than you are and having the capacity to regret hurting those who genuinely care about you. "Nice" is more about motive and intent to me than it is about action and appearance.

To me, "nice" is inextricably tied to a fundamental sense of decency...a will to be kind and caring, even though that will is accompanied by the pragmatic acceptance that there will be times that the nice person is going to fail at being the person they wished they could be. I suppose you could say I think truly "nice" people have a well-developed and eternally pesky conscience.

As for who I might or might not believe is "nice," that just goes back to definitions and perceptions. As well as value judgements. I am not a bit sure that someone like Bob would put a huge weight on being, or on being considered to be, "nice," depending on the parameters of those definitions and perceptions. I'd think it likely that he might value acting with honesty or integrity more than most usual definitions of being/acting "nice".

Purely a guess, but I think that once you move outside of the circle of people Sean truly cares about, the nicer he acts to others, particularly to less-than-"nice"-themselves others), the greater the chance is that he thinks those others to be arseholes and his niceness is taking place to encourage them into even worse behaviour.

This brings up the whole matter of cultural manifestations of "nice". If there is a Gold Standard of Newfoundlander Behaviour With Jerks, this encouraging-(further) idiocy-with-niceness would be it. "Newfies are so nice to everyone"...oh yes, buddy, they most certainly are. Without a doubt, for sure. Past a certain point - and at a rather low threshold at that - the nicer a Newfoundlander is being to me, the more certain I am that I have just done something stunned and am now paying the expected price for it. I'd like to see the look on Sean's face if he were asked whether he describes himself as being "nice".

Which leaves Alan. I always save the best for last, don't I? What is best to me, that is. By my own definition, yes, I believe Alan is a nice person; regardless of any actions or inactions, I have never doubted that, not once. I have always believed in and thought well of that fundamentally good and decent person who is consistent with my own standards for "nice," and I expect I always will. I know other people have completely different standards of measure that bring them to both the same and to the opposite conclusions about him, good enough examples of the trickiness of defining and perceiving. I believe he wants to be viewed as a nice person too, publicly viewed that way. I'd love to hear him go into what comprises his own personal definition of the concept of niceness.

Since Murray and Kris don't get the big bucks or the big attention (I just read somewhere where GBS was described as a "trio" and that seems less than fair to me, along with an unfortunately limiting PR approach), I'll let them off the hook with this one. All I'll say is that I like them both and leave it at that.

I've got even less of a clue how to answer about employees. Are you asking me if they do their jobs in a "nice" way or if they are nice people doing their jobs however it is expected of them to do so? The latter is far more common than the alternative; I have certainly been in that position, as have others I care about. For that matter, much of the time, so is GBS. When the majority of people see them in any context, they are doing their jobs. Alan, Bob, and Sean are, in a way, employees of the entity Great Big Sea too. Lots of fans are fond of saying "GBS is greater than the sum of its parts"; I don't particularly agree with that artistically, but I do think it is true pragmatically, in regard to the "GBS world" of business decisions and practices.

As for niceness as an employee, all I can say is that the person who has never acted like an arsehole because that behaviour is what their job expects/requires from them is indeed a very lucky person and I envy them.

Alright, enough of that. In regard to competition, I honestly don't know. If so, that is a foolish (and inexperienced rookie-type) attitude. One thing I have learned with the internet (with PR in general, for that matter) is that it is synergistic. People see something on one site and that kicks up interest so they surf to other sites. It isn't like competing magazines or stations - there is no extra money being paid to go from Site A to Site B and no time or effort of any magnitude being required. All buzz is good buzz.

I think, however, in this case it is more about wanting to control the discourse and perceiving threats in any approach or opinion that is not under their thumb. Again, rookie behaviour that makes those using it look insecure and lacking the very control they want so badly to maintain. Perhaps in time the approach/attitude will mature.

Thank you for the good thoughts, Ellen. My friend is not doing well. It might sound foolish to say that about a person who is dying, but there are so many different ways to die. Don't ever let anyone tell you those differences do not matter - they matter profoundly. I keep hoping it will get a little better for them in the midst of it all.

Leslie, I am so sorry to hear about your sick friend and your mother. I hope your news gets better soon on both fronts; you did seem preoccupied at the AC show, and for good reason. Keep your hopes up to see Alan and Russell together again one day - I am sure going to keep right on hoping myself.

I think I might write up something about all three shows at once. There were patterns in the whole group of shows that were consistent, and writing them together makes sense to me. I have read some of the comments of others about the AC show, and I am afraid my take on it is going to differ somewhat, not sure yet how much because I am still thinking about it.

There is a dynamic between their growth and their crowd that is fascinating, a little troubling too. And dynamics between them that are much the same. I have begun to hope so much about this new album that it is starting to scare me for fear of it not being like how it sounds it might be. But I love all the new music I have heard, not just like it because of how much I like them and want them to do well but love it for what it is. And I was so blown away by Hawksley's show a few weeks ago...I still need to put up those videos. The thought of what they could all create together is staggering. And so hopeful.

Stephen, yes, I loved seeing Alan and Russell together. It feels like it's been ages since the last time and I hope the wait for the next time is nowhere near as long. I hope my smile came near being as bright as Alan's was; I do know that by the end of Molly Malone, my cheeks were aching from smiling. Russell's got a pretty darn sweet smile himself.

I understand what you mean about not wanting to be identified as part of a particular group. We all have the tendency to judge people by the company they keep, so why not them too? If you keep being seen in the midst of the pack, it is reasonable for someone to assume that you are a full-fledged member of that pack.

I'm not sure I'd put the cruise in the pay-for-access category. It's more of a hybrid...there is still the option of going just for the music and/or the cruising, but I agree the promise/hope of personal access to the "stars" is implicit in the packaging (and in the stiff price).

This aspect is acknowledged openly enough by many of the cruisers, who talk about new bands as being "appropriate" cruise material because of how they come out after shows and drink with fans and hang around with the pursuers for their attention. And plenty of people have been honest enough to admit the real draw of GBS being on the cruise was the perception that there would be the chance to "get to them" personally. Since God knows that possibility cost an arm and a leg, on that level you could call it purchasing access for some, but not fair to extend it to all. But when you go to a meet and greet or worm your way backstage, there's really only one reason for doing so. That one is much more clear-cut.

I have my own struggles with this. There are times I like to watch the "show after the show" at the bus or pub (I can't stomach the notion of paying for any access beyond that of the show itself...that feels demeaning, to myself and to them), but do not like that group identification thing either.

Funny story, funny in the "oh, how sick" sort of way, I suppose. One of the kind of stories I get in trouble for telling because this part of the truth about GBSunshineand is not really wanted by many:

It's been brought to my attention that a certain pack of fanbitches has been spreading around the "fact" that the reason I don't stake out their tour bus so I can chase them to the pub or hang at the stage door so they can't get past me or try to finagle any way at all to put myself in their path isn't because I might be trying to be considerate or thoughtful of their privacy and personal space. Oh no, according to these shining examples of GBS fans...it's because there's a restraining order out against me. Uh-huh. And what this tells me about the people who are spreading such a lie is that this is exactly what measure it would take to keep THEM from doing all the stalking and pursuing and intruding they can possibly do whenever they have the opportunity to do so.

The concept of refraining from incessant pursuing and grasping and intruding out of free choice is clearly incomprehensible to such people. And I think the same thing about those who choose to believe such lies, including erstwhile friends who turn out to be fans instead. Though I must confess that right now I'm not thinking too highly of my own judgement when it comes to who I trust as a friend. Live and learn, I suppose; that, and be even more grateful for the real friends.

So, yes, there are groups I would rather not be considered a part of. I understand your point for sure, probably way more than you might expect me to.

Yes, I am home. Holy shit, it is Spring here. Where did Spring come from? Where did the snow all go? My sinuses are dancing a jig from the sudden pollen exposure. And my cats are still a bit pissed at me, but coming around. I'll get rest, I promise, and I will be back to write about the shows (and Sean's intriguing comment) in not too long, as soon as I catch up on a few dozen things here.

[Laura]

Fanbitches...Heh. Good one. If anybody has just cause to be wary of GBS fans it’s got to be you, Lynda. It blows that someone you trusted turned out not worth that trust but you have to be getting used to it by now, right?

Are you sure Sean’s all right? I watched the videos from the cruise and read what people wrote and now it’s what I see and read about this past weekend and I wonder about him. He looks “off” to me somehow. I hope it’s just my imagination on overdrive.

I wish your friend the best. Some ways to die are better than others, same as ways to live.

Take care of yourself too --

L

[Mary]

After all that I still can't tell if you think they're nice except for Alan.

[Anon]

What I'd like to know is if & why you think GBS doesn't want to socialize with ANY of their fans?

[Anna the Piper]

Wow, wonderful videos, Lynda, thank you for sharing those with us. I've seen smaller versions of the performances, both from an OKP poster and relayed from the greatbigsea.com site admins, but it's marvelous to see your full-sized vids. And they're converting down to my iPod quite nicely. ;)

[Lynda]

Anna! When I read this I remembered I never answered your comment on the last entry - I am so sorry about that. I had to check out of the hotel and was going to answer later and then the thought fell right out of my open-ended brain. Careless and rude of me and I do apologise.

As soon as I wrap up what I suspect will be a wordy response here I will go straight back and answer there too, but right here and now I won't wait to say how good it is to hear from you. I looked for you at ZooTunes, and I thought about you when Russell came out at ShamrockFest...I knew you would love to be there seeing it, and you and folks like you are a big reason for the videos in the first place.

David is the iPodder in the family, so it never occurred to me that my videos probably do go pretty well with iPod use, their being in Quicktime and all. Some Windows folks bitch about the Quicktime files (though Mac people seem happy enough), but it's how my camera captures video. I really do like the big size and better quality too - even though the file sizes are so frigging huge - which is why I keep all of my videos away from YouTube.

I'm glad you found these, Anna. They were sure made with you (and the other folks I know who have been both GBS and TOFOG fans way longer than I have) in mind.

Hope I get to see you soon - supposedly GBS is playing here in Seattle this summer, not sure where but I am wondering if, given their current summer-festival focus, they might wind up at Bumbershoot yet again.

Anon, I am guessing you will understand why it is I edited out the rest of your comment. One of the perks of having one's own blog, I have learned, is that there is no requirement to make public the full text of comments that personally insult you. I did read that full text, though, so you can rest assured that your own purpose was accomplished on that front. You just don't get to do that accomplishing in front of an audience. Here, at least.

However, your initial question is legitimate enough to merit at least an attempt at an answer, especially since I have been asked much the same by people with less of an agenda than you have. So I'll give it a shot.

Since there are certainly people who are GBS fans with whom I very much enjoy socialising - and a few with whom I have become close and lasting friends - it would be completely inconsistent for me to think that the band members would be unable to come across any fans with whom they themselves might enjoy socialising.

The tricky part here is that, in my own personal experience, the best and most enjoyable people in their fan group tend to be (and, as ever, there are notable exceptions to this generalisation) the people who do not repeatedly push themselves forward in pursuit of socialising with the band members; as a general rule, I have found that those who incessantly chase after "personal contact" with performers the most relentlessly and who have the greatest need/desire/determination to obtain (and keep on obtaining - over and over, again and again...I am not talking at all about the casual, one-time-only autograph- or souvenir-photo seeking fans or even occasional personal interaction, nor am I talking about the people who simply go to a whole lot of shows and don't continually go after repeated personal interaction) that personal contact are often (again, not always...CYA disclaimer time) the very least enjoyable people with whom to socialise - again, in my own opinion.

If you think about, it makes perfect sense. What kind of people wind up pursuing that way? Interesting, well-rounded, emotionally secure people who have full lives and healthy relationships? People who have a genuine interest in others as human beings instead of as trophy acquistions and ego-feeding opportunities, and thus have something of substance to give back in an exchange beyond acquiring and feeding? Why would that kind of person have such a driving need to keep going after this type of contact in the first place?

Very little of the "I hung with the band" shit is casual or coincidental, particlarly the repeat hangers-on; the majority of those who get to that point have invested a great deal of time and effort - and money - in being in that place. What kind of person is so motivated to grasp at this kind of contact, and is that the kind of person many of us would particularly enjoy socialising with? On an even more basic level, don't most people prefer to choose who they do (and don't) wind up socialising with, rather than having that choice made for them?

So what often happens - in my opinion - is that to a large extent, the people who the performers (any performers, not only GBS) might most enjoy meeting and spending some social time with are the people they are the least likely to come into contact with, the people who are too nice to push themselves into position for that contact. They are constrained by thoughts of being considerate, because they see the performers as fellow human beings who deserve such consideration, instead of as objects of ego-gratification attention-receiving. That field of play is unfortunately usually dominated by the ones who do see them that way.

Once you get beyond the genuine chance encounters, I don't think most performers meet all that many people who do not see them as having a big fat target on their backs or who are not out to use those performers for whatever they can get from them. And pure pragmatics dictate that these are the very people with whom they most often wind up socialising. The damn shame of it is that this is the lion's share of what they wind up seeing as a picture of those who are their fans and of how people see them, which has always seemed so unfair to all of the really nice people I know that they are most llikely never going to meet or talk to, as well as being very unfair to the performers themselves, who could probably benefit from being seen and treated like human beings much more often than is the general rule.

Maybe think about it this way, Anon: You are in a crowded bar, and in that crowded bar is someone who almost everyone there wants to get next to. And this someone spends night after night after night in crowded bars where everyone wants to get next to him/her. This pressing desire has almost nothing to do with who he or she is as a person...it is mostly about the pursuit and the competition and feeling better than everyone else if you can get next to him/her, even for a tiny bit of time. That still puts you ahead of those who didn't get next to him/her at all.

Now think about the inevitable sameness of what all of those competing would-be ego-feeders are going to be saying and doing to try to secure their own personal "magic moment". How many times the exact same inane questions are asked, the same braying laughter is heard, the identical-looking tits are waggled, the repetitious camera flashes go off. Night after night after night for years on end spent being pursued by people who want you because your attention will make them feel more important somehow.

Is that your definition of a good time socialising over the course of years? Do you think you would be able to keep on enjoying wave after wave after wave of the kind of people who keep on trying to use you in such manner?

And to be blunt, what do most people have to offer in such a situation, given that level of competition for attention? Go back to the crowded bar scenario, and just imagine it is a gorgeous woman or handsome man who is being sought after so assiduously. Would most of these people doing the pursuing of performers really expect to get much attention from such a person? Are they attractive enough, witty enough, intelligent enough, well-supplied-with-whatever-commodity enough to get to the place they want to be with a regular person they desire, instead of someone who is expected to make nice to them because "I bought your CD/show ticket so now do your job"?

When performers are doing what they need to do/are expected to do to satisfy fans, or returning on an investment or services rendered, are those things really socialising? Or is genuine socialising more a matter of both parties sincerely wanting to be in the presence of the other, and both parties honestly giving a shit about each other instead of just being out for what they can get from each other? And having something of substance to give each other, as well.

At the end of the day, I tend toward the belief that people who find themselves in similar circumstances will often (one more time...not always) react in similar ways. All I know for sure is that I am weary to the depths of my heart and soul of seeing that looks-the-same-everywhere avaricious gleam and rapacious smile on the interchangeable faces of those who want to use others to feed their own need to feel like Somebody Important (and I am not talking only about GBS fans here). There is always the possibility that the people upon whom those insatiable gazes have been focused for years and years might have the seemingly superhuman ability not to be even more sick and tired of such relentless pursuit...but that does seem a very slim possibility, to my own way of thinking.

I hope that suffices as an answer to your legit question, Anon. I am sure I will be hearing more from you on the other matter.

Mary, I am not sure where to go from here. Maybe with this story:

When The Hard & The Easy CD first came out, a woman I know - a Newfoundland woman in her mid-60s - took a look at the rather blatant sexism on the cover of the CD, shook her head sadly and muttered, "I always thought they were NICE boys." (And this was before she had even heard The Mermaid Song.) There are few times in my life when I find myself utterly incapable of some kind of response in the moment; this time qualified for that level of speechlessness.

Again, it came down to a matter of definitions and perceptions. I am pretty sure I understand what that woman means when she uses the word "nice"; it's not how I personally would define the term, and it's also not how I personally would describe the men of GBS. But there is no way I could say that to her; she has (or at least she had) a perception that she wants to hold onto.

Laura, thank you for thinking of my friend and his family. Things are marginally better at the moment, a bit of hope for that better way to die. You make an excellent point about ways to die being like ways to live, some better and some worse. Sometimes we can make those choices, and sometimes they are made for us.

I honestly couldn't say for sure about Sean. I hope the same as you. I do tend to wonder about him whenever he starts playing it too far over the top at consecutive shows. Sometimes it comes across as him being supportive of Alan, but at other times it does take on that perturbing self-parodic edge.

Speaking of which, I have to confess to having a hard time even looking at him when he was playing the guitar with the revisionist Guthrie slogan on it. Yes, it is witty and clever, and, yes, all of the clueless people who see it as a booze celebration and just laugh at the Drunk Newfie Party Band are being set up to be held in contempt by those who "get it". But that's a damn sharp double edge he's got there on irony's knife, and I found it to be more painful than amusing.

I was thinking tangentially along these lines the other day while watching a fellow in line at the airport. He and his mates were talking about some big deal they had just closed, and they were all happy, but this one buddy looked distinctly uneasy about being happy. It got me thinking about how some people really are not at their best unless things are going to shit and they are having to be all strong and enduring tribulations or else maybe being all pissed and fighting challenges. Some people are just made uneasy and unsettled by a feeling of happiness they are sure is destined to come to a predictable end, probably sooner rather than later.

OK, now here comes the "speculation" (yes, Bob, I know...generally unhealthy and all that): My own perception is that Sean tends to put on this kind of world-weary jaded front, or at least he has in the past; it was pretty much all I saw of him for the first few years I saw GBS. And then, hallelujah and praise the Lord - Sean Got Happy. There are some people who simply flourish when they are happy, people who take to happiness as if it were their natural state ("like a duck to water," as my mom would surely have said); I see Sean as one of these people. He has been a delight to observe; my secondmost pleasure at GBS shows (I think most everyone knows what my foremost pleasure at GBS shows is) for some time now has been how wonderful it's been to see Sean looking so darn happy. He makes a very good Happy Man, and I hope very much for that to continue for him.

Actually, I believe there are others with greater cause to be wary of fans than I. I know a few people who wound up so brutalised by fan interactions that they won't go near the music anymore, let alone the shows. And the ones with the greatest justification for wariness would have to be the fellows who find themselves smack dab in the crosshairs.

I struggle with the wariness issue. I am wary now, more so than I ever wanted to be, to be honest. Sometimes I look at the really good people I am close to now and wonder if I would ever have let them near me if I had met them later on in all of this than I did. I wonder if I am missing out on meeting other really good people because of that wariness. Then someone I did trust does something that makes the wariness look like a very wise move indeed, survival behaviour at its most basic.

I don't worry so much about being wary about fans, because experience has taught me what an even-odds bet that is, but I do get concerned when it bleeds over into other areas and I find myself wary of most anyone new I meet. Most of all, it unsettles me when I start to question the wisdom of caring in general, just because of getting sick and tired of all the hurting that keeps taking place. Not like such questioning does anything at all to make it stop - neither the caring nor the hurting - it's more like an unneeded drain on resources.

Trusting people is very tricky. Some people deserve all the trust you have to give, and some deserve not a bit of it. Some people can be trusted for who they are, even if not always for what they do. And there are always those who are going to be loved, regardless of what measure of trust they merit.

I think I got "fanbitches" from Croweland. For sure that is where "the bitch herd" comes from...I love that one. But "Seanivores" is absolutely wonderful - that one is yours, isn't it? Or did Ellen come up with that one? Given enough time and inspiration, perhaps I will write a Fan Lingua Dictionary one of these days.

Alright, enough from me on these topics for now. I am going to go back and say a proper word or two to Anna's comment on the last entry, and I should have something up about the last shows and the new CD in a day or two. Still waiting for the Russell linkage traffic to slow down a bit.

[Jean-Marie]

Lynda,
Thanks for your description of the Shamrockfest show. The behavior you encountered is exactly why I didn't go...I'm starting to get better at anticipating when a GBS show is going to be a stupid, drunken riot. Of course I would have LOVED to have seen Russell on that stage with the boys...oh well maybe some day.

I look forward to your description of the HOB show...I loved the mixed up set-list w/old and new, it was wonderful. And, of course, it was nice to see you.

The discussions about fan/band encounters intrigue me. As you know I spent some unforgettable time with the guys a few years back...it definitely wasn't planned it just sort of happened. I think because I was cool about being with them and didn't give off a desperate pay-attention-to-me vibe that they asked me to sit down and have a drink with them. I was thrilled but I didn't let it show and that was that...drinks with GBS. I have seen fans giving off such frantic vibes that I know I would be completely turned off and a little freaked if they were aimed at me. The only thing it reminds me of is when you come home to your lab puppy...pawing and drooling on you and desperate for attention. Sheesh.

And it would be easy for me to say please ignore other "fanbitches" (good word) their mean thoughts and nasty words. It's sort of like this is some sort of "Most loyal GBS fan" competition and since you are a pretty loyal fan they feel like they are losing somehow and then need to denigrate you, your love of the band, and your writing. I just don't understand it. Don't let the bastards get you down my dear,

[ziggy]

Being in my late 20's, a fan for the last 10 years, but new to the world of online fandom, I have made some great friendships, but have delt with lots of nasty people. Many of them being older. People assume that because I drove a distance, waited in line too long and ran to the front of the stage Im a groupy. I was lucky to be given a pass to the Foundation Room. The place was empty but for a few of us and the boys did come in. It was a relaxed experience. Not one autograph was asked for and the camera only came out later on into the night. It was great to be able to talk to them one on one and get answers to questions in a great environment. Would I do it again if I had a chance...yes. Would I look for the chance...probably not. After 6 months of hell, that night almost made up for all of it and if they didnt want to be there, they wouldnt. Being in a band they have a duty to their fans. And for the record, I have met Alan a few times, but Sean was a pleasure to meet and at some point in the night managed to make each and every one of us feel special.If that isnt his true character, I dont care. This is the guy I want to remember.

[Lynda]

I almost skipped Shamrockfest myself for the same reasons. I kept going back and forth about it because of what I expected it would be like there (and for the most part was, though not quite as bad as I had feared), all the way up until I heard that Russell was going to be in DC at the same time as the festival. That persuaded me to go, hopeful as always to see Alan and Russell together again. I sure hope everyone else who wants to see Alan and Russell together gets their wish...which means I get to do a lot of seeing too, of course.

I loved the HOB set list too, especially opening with Tonight. Great opening move with being in position with the curtain raising too. And a break from Mari Mac - my brain is practically programmed to go directly from Consequence Free to Mari Mac to Ordinary Day. One time I saw Murray look down at the set list to see what was after Consequence Free and I laughed at him, since it had been Mari Mac after CF at every show he had played with GBS, at least at every show I had seen him play with GBS. Now, I guess I can't laugh at him if he does that again.

I was actually thinking about your encounter with them, yours and some others like it, while writing my last response; the memory of those type of encounters where they clearly had a free choice of place and circumstance caused me to work hard to be careful to differentiate between the genuine chance encounters - as well as the encounters they themselves seek out - as opposed to the contrived interactions that they often wind up in beyond their own choosing or control. You got a chance that night to see a bit of what it is like for them being on the receiving end of those frantic and persistent attentions on so many nights and how well they handle it all. It's quite the enlightening experience, isn't it?

Have you ever heard Alan's and Chris Trapper's co-write Take Me For A Ride? (if not, it is on Michelle Doyle's CD). It's a striking song, unforgettable and powerful, several lines in particular:

"Hey Superstar, would you mind
If I stood here by your side?
I'm not a desperate soul,
my eyes are open wide...
There's no need to worry,
No need to feel confused
You'll soon see that it's not me who's being used"

Which really says all that needs to be said, my long-winded blather notwithstanding.

Thanks much for the kind encouragement, Jean-Marie. It's never really the known rotten ones who bother me, because, frankly, it's kind of a reassuring sign when those you don't think much of think just as little of you in turn. Balance in the universe, and all that. It would concern me if people like that thought I was wonderful. The only time it gets to me is when I mistakenly trust someone I should not have trusted. But at the end of the day, the lesson learned really is to appreciate even more the people who are worth trusting in any given group of people. Limited supply always increases value...Econ 101.

Hope to be seeing you sometime soon, certainly by the fall.

Hello, Ziggy. Thanks for taking the time to comment here. I never had anything to do with online fandom until I stumbled across GBS, either, though I have since gotten to know some people in a few other online fan groups too. Like you, I have met some really great people and some real stinkers. Probably the same for most people.

I suppose it isn't all that different from a lot of other groups of people who share a common interest - there are always going to be good people and bad people, as well as some you really like and others who drive you up a wall. Or maybe sometimes it is more a matter of people who just can't understand one another.

I think what you said here is very honest, Ziggy, and I do respect that honesty. Thanks again for commenting.

[Christina]

How do these "foundation room" things work? It strikes me that there could be a lot of explanations for why bands show up in them- as this is their job, chief among them would be that they are being paid or required to attend. Carrot or stick, the end result is the same. It's that "other related duties of the position" clause in every contract that gets us all, in whatever job we do. I was a full time nanny to a two-year-old the summer I was sixteen, and "other related duties" included looking after the dog, which was fine until the day he ran halfway to Torbay and came back covered in cow manure. Sigh. The two-year-old thought the resulting group bath was hilarious. We all deal with our own level of job-related shit, literal or figurative, but some jobs have a lot more of it than others.

I suppose being a musician is a combination of contract and self-employed, though, since they are playing shows for a fee and selling CDs for supplemental profit, so there is an argument for wanting to be there to drum up business. They do have a new CD coming out soon, after all.

Speaking of which, are you going to write about Hawksley at some point? Dear god he's amazing. I can't wait to see what influence he had on the new music. How can we arrange to have Alan, Hawksley and Russell work together next? They need to hole up in Hawksley's house in wherever-he-lives with the multitudinous pianos for a little while, and write spectacular music together, and then they need to play that spectacular music live, so that we can sit in the audience watching three impossibly sexy, sensual men on stage performing at the same time. Spontaneous orgasm guaranteed with every admission. :-)

[Lynda]

I honestly do not know how the AC Foundation Room works, or if all of the FRs follow the same policies. All I know is that in the HOBs in LA, SF, and Las Vegas (and I think Cleveland, though I am not sure), the artists are (or at least were...it has been a few years) required by contract to spend a specified amount of time after an HOB show in the Foundation Room, socialising with the people who have paid through the nose for a high-priced FR membership. As I recall, high rollers in Vegas also got in, and those who were staying in the costliest rooms too (the Las Vegas HOB is - or was - in a hotel too, just like the one at AC...but the LA, SF, and Cleveland HOBs are not).

We stayed at the Showboat the night before the GBS HOB show there (our $89-a-night bare-basics room on Thursday magically turned into a $249-a-night grossly overpriced room on Friday, so we did not stay there after the show), and I noticed in a flyer we were given at the hotel that those who stayed in the $650-a-night suites were given passes to the Foundation Room. And of course FR memberships are honoured in all FRs across the country. So those are two ways to get into the FR as a customer; and as I mentioned earlier, on occasion on very slow nights, "regular people" are let in because it looks bad to make the artists put in an appearance into an empty FR. Whether the performing artists are required by contract to put in such an FR appearance in AC the same as they are in so many other HOBs is something I do not know for sure. My guess is "yes," but it is still only a guess.

Speaking generally, I do not personally agree with Ziggy's notion of a band having a duty to their fans if that "duty" is being expected to be fulfilled on band members' personal time. I don't think any band members owe their fans jack shit on their own personal time, though pragmatics would say it could be to a band's benefit to go ahead and meet those unrealistic expectations anyway. And if it were true that an artist's presence some place off stage were a part of fulfilling the work contract, and if that artist knew upfront this off stage work was part and parcel of his getting and getting paid for the gig and agreed to those terms, then that really isn't their personal time anyway. That is still on-the-clock work time, and whatever job duties were agreed to during that time (the "other related duties of the position") could fairly be expected to be fulfilled.

Again, none of this is much different from "subscriber receptions" that artists playing a given venue are expected to attend, a perk that causes a whole lot of people to become subscribers, just as the FR perk causes a whole lot of people to buy memberships or book expensive suites. All part of the biz.

And, again making the best effort to be fair to the people who really have no intention of using or abusing or doing any harm at all, most of it is probably pretty innocuous, if perhaps rather mind-numbing after doing it over and over for years upon years. For the most part, it's a matter of meeting one breathless and excited person for a few fleeting moments and that person is thrilled with those moments, perfectly content with their own little moment to treasure. I have seen so many people having that moment, and much of the time there is something almost painfully sweet about it, especially the dazed smile on their faces as they walk away.

But those are the ones who do walk away, the ones who are content with getting something that is not out of bounds to expect from a performer. It's the ones who keep coming back and pushing for more, the ones that the more attention they get, the more they need and think they are entitled to, that give me the creeps. I think that gets into what you said about the shit that goes with the job, Christina.

Ahhh, Hawksley. Yes, I needs to write about him and I need to get those videos up. Damn, I am behind, aren't I? Did you know there is a kind of connection between Hawksley and Russell already, beyond collaborating with Alan, that is. Hawksley is friends with Marion Cotillard, who was in A Good Year With Russell and he has written some songs for her. Only one more little step to working with Russell, and how could Alan not be a part of that too. You know I thought Hawksley's stage demeanour was reminiscent of Russell's on occasion at that show. Yes, I do need to write about that.

What, only one spontaneous orgasm from the sexy, sensual triad of Alan, Russell, and Hawksley? I think that is a serious understatment.

[Christina]

Yes, I had entirely forgotten the six degrees of separation thing. I guess that's only two degrees of separation. I'm never very good at that game. :-)

It becomes a nice tight little web when you add Alan as a connecting part between Hawksley and Russell.

They would be incredible together, all of them. You're right, just one spontaneous orgasm might be very much underestimating their combined performance power. I'd be happy to keep a running tally if such a thing should ever come to pass.

[Darce]

Lynda:

I don’t agree with everything that’s been said here but it has made for an interesting read, something I’ve missed getting other places IYKWIM. I’ve been a GBS fan for a real long time. I remember when you first came along, I’d been a GBS fan for several years already then. The one thing I’ve never understood is why each subsequent batch of fans who try to chase down and be best buddies with the guys (and its obvious who the members of the current batch are) never wonder why there isn’t somebody else already there ahead of them. Do they truely believe they’re the first fans who try to insinuate themselves into the boys private lives? Do they think they are that special and unique and nobody else before them was like them or tried to do what they’re trying? LOL!

I plan to keep on being a GBS fan as long as there’s a GBS to be a fan of. It looks like you ’re in it for the long haul too. In time, this batch will go the way of all the other batches before them. The same will be true about the next batch. Those who don’t learn from histories mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

These are really nice videos with Russell Crowe. I still shake my head over Alan Doyle and Russell Crowe together.

Whatever happened to your book anyway? Is that still a working project?

Peace,

Darce

[L]

Maybe it's time for more nice people to get up off their considerate butts and stop leaving the field wide open to the assholes.

Think about it. How nice is it to let these guys see only one shitty kind of person trying to sink fangs into them and use them all the time because you want to hold back to make sure you don't run the risk of looking bad? Did you ever think maybe that’s another way to be selfish?

I hope you're right about Sean being happy.

If you write a Fan Lingua, be sure it's a cunning one. ;P

L.

[lynda]

Hello, Darce. I'm pretty sure we've met a few times, though I do tend to get confused with real names and screen names; it is challenging enough to recall one name for a lot of people...when most have two names to remember, it's next to impossible. Don't worry a bit about not agreeing with all that gets said here; I have mentioned before that one description of Hell could be spending eternity around those who agree with every single think you think and say. I'm glad you've gotten some pleasure reading here, and thanks for giving back some of the same by commenting.

I've wondered about that same phenomenon too, and not only with new people coming into the fan groups of longtime artists. I see it happen in workplaces and towns too: Some folks seem to think that the story only begins for real from the point they walk into it, no interest in or respect for history and context and all that has preceded them, kind of like a middle-chapter character thinking his or her own entrance has to be the "Once upon a time" cue, and of course the whole story has to come to a crashing halt when they leave the plotliine.

It's an odd quirk, rather solipsistic when you think about it. When I first came across GBS and their fan group (online and at shows...while there is crossover, one is not the sum total of the other, as I'm sure you know), it was more or less a transition time, even more so than I realised at the time. It took me a very long time to fully understand the significance of my having seen GBS live for the first time almost immediately after Darrell had returned from taking time off for the birth of his first child; that was late summer of 2001, and by the end of 2002, Darrell was gone. Looking back with the clarity of hindsight, I wonder if maybe in some ways he never really came all the way back, and perhaps all that I first saw of GBS that initial year and a half was part of that transition.

One of the first times I ever talked with Darrell at length was at a bar in Boise; he was very drunk, rather charmingly so, and he went on and on about a particular literary metaphor in a book we had both read, the kind of metaphor that speaks volumes about feelings of frustration and powerlessness and inadequacy. When the conversation ended, I said to my husband that I didn't think Darrell was going to be able to deal with the shit of the road for a great deal longer. It was clear enough to me that this was not the beginning of a story I had wandered into, but a very complicated middle instead.

Same with the fans. Again, maybe it is partly a matter of timing. I came in at a time when there was a big "changing of the guard" taking place, with lots of longtime fans unhappy with the "new" music of SoNC and the "different" message board; many of them really did not like the drums (I saw GBS only two times before Kris joined them), and what some of them were perceiving as an increasing lack of willingness on the band members' part to spend a lot of personal time with fans was also a sore point. You probably recall this stuff even better than I do, Darce, because you had been around longer and had a better frame of reference (context) for it all.

Like you - though, again, I am sure you have seen more of this - I have watched while successive groups of fans have diligently pursued their earnestly desired Insiderness with band members. The patterns are so familiar, the cycle so predictable: From the initial giddy beginning of fandom to the breathless gratitude of initial attention to the insistence on more attention to the surly demand for yet more of what can no longer satisfy in any sane or reasonable measure. Then, when what they want is totally beyond what can be given, the disenchantment and sourness set in. Usually followed by the disappearance, with luck. Without luck, another few nasty haters come into being to torment any and all who still find good reason and cause to think well of and remain loyal to any of these men.

And if you or I or anyone else who has been observing this continuing cycle feel numbed or wearied by its incessant repetition, can you even begin to imagine how those who have been caught in it from the very beginning might see it all? Back when I was a naive fool, I thought it was possible to break the continuing cycle. I don't think that way so much anynore. I also don't think it's a pattern that relates only to GBS anymore either.

I suppose the real reason each new group of pursuing fans does not question the absence of those who have come before them trying to do the same thing they are trying so hard to do is because they do not want to hear the answer. Some of them are so self-centred that they probably really do want to believe the are The Very First who have ever been So Special, and others of them might actually suspect what the reality of the situation is but will not face it because that would interfere with their fantasy. Frankly, other than when it comes to the really young ones or the particularly stunned ones (the Triffies with their little half-smiles), it's hard to feel all that much sympathy for those with either point of view, though I never want to get to a point of feeling indifferent either and I have even less patience with wasting time and energy on contempt. Maybe "acceptance" is the most sensible, Middle-Ground sort of response possible, along with a bit of writer's curiousity about some of the intriguing differences (and similarities) that can be discerned in each successive group.

Santayana was indeed a bright fellow. The cycle will be sure to continue. Thank goodness for the longtime fans who stay loyal to the music and the men over the course of years. At first I was distracted by the online comings and goings and the drama and turmoil of the ones who are always pushing for something more, but I eventually had the sense to start recognising how important the quieter, steadier fans really are to any artists, the solid foundation upon which to build and then go out and find new people who will in turn become quiet and steady longtime fans themselves. And, yes, I am most definitely here for the long haul, steady enough, I suppose, even if perhaps not particularly quiet. But here, for sure. It doesn't make much sense to go leaving your heart behind. I just hold on tight when the winds howl and keep believing each storm will fade, eventually.

I too was surprised when I first heard about Alan working with Russell, more than a bit worried as well. I was afraid the Big Bad Movie Star might hurt Alan. Now I badly want the two of them to work together as much as possible, for artistic and personal reasons alike. I think it's safe to say Russell really won me over, on both fronts.

A friend's mother asked me this same question about my book recently, and my initial response to her was that I had thought I had it half-written, and then I realised that I did not know what the hell I was talking about. Yet.

For a long time, my book has been a pondering project much more than a working project. For a period of time, anything honest I wrote would have run the risk of saying things I do not want to say, not at all the love story I want most to tell. So I waited, and waited, and waited...hoping for the things I do want to say to become honest. An honest love story, one written with clear eyes and an open heart, and no need for illusions.

It has taken quite some time, and I have belatedly realised that what most needed to change was me. I needed to become the person who could say the things I want to say with honesty and love and no illusions. Not at all an easy or pain-free process, to be sure, but a necessary one.

Also, one of the greatest hurdles I've had to surpass has been a structural one. How to do this - topically? chronologically? No clue for the longest time, no matter how much I pounded my head against the wall. Then, just a few weeks ago, the answer was simply there. No blinding moment of epiphany, no light bulbs going off over my head. It was just there, and I knew it was the right answer. Same as I know I am very close to becoming the right person.

Feel free not to agree here any time, Darce.

Laura, you have managed to render me near-speechless. What you say in this context goes with what I say about a lot of other ways in which I believe the passivity of "good people" allows a whole lot of shitty people to run amok in this world and do a hell of a lot of damage.

I think you make a damn good point, a point that has definitely rattled me. Or pierced me...sometimes there is excellent cause for calling it a "point". Thank you for making me think hard about this one.

Hah - it would be a very cunning lingua, I promise. Did I ever tell you what the difference is between a band of pygmies and a women's track team? One of them is a bunch of cunning runts.

Yes, non-PC, I know.

OK, I think this is going to max out my blog's capacity for comments on a single entry, and I might have to delete one or two prior comments to fit these last ones in (I am not sure, but I think there might be a 25-comment limit before it starts randomly eating earlier comments). I will still receive comments made here, but I don't think I can put more up on this entry. Christina, if I must I am (regretfully) going to edit out our spontaneous-orgasm exchange if need be to fit the rest in...it's not as if we don't discuss such topics at all kinds of other times anyway.

I still have an appreciable amount of Russell linkage traffic for the videos, so maybe I'll wait till Monday to put up the next entry about the recent shows, which would give me some time to edit a few Shamrockfest photos too.

Thanks again to everyone for the thought-provoking discussion. I hope others have enjoyed it as least half as much as I have.